Red and Blue look awful on my Toshiba 65h80

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Adeel A, Jun 30, 2001.

  1. Adeel A

    Adeel A Auditioning

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    I have a toshiba 65h80 and a jvc 723 progressive scan dvd player hooked up to it using AR component cables. I also have AVIA and have calibrated the system using that. My problem is that whenever there is anything red in a movie it looks really bright and unnatural. It kind of glows. The glowing effect is there with bright blue also. It is really distracting and ruins the whole effect of watching the movie. The scene in Charlie's Angels where they are at the racetrack for example looked especially bad since almost everything (cars, outfits, signs) had a lot of red an blue in it.
    Using AVIA my tv has the following settings:
    contrast 40
    brightness 40
    color 42
    tint -8
    sharpness 8
    fleshtones off
    temp. warm
    I put the color down to around 36, but the effect is still noticeable. If I put the color down anymore, people start to lose color in their faces which also looks bad. Is this a phenomenon of the tv or the dvd player. Is there anything else I can try?
     
  2. Steve_D

    Steve_D Second Unit

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    Yes, you can have an ISF tech calibrate it.
    My Tosh on warm seems a bit red as well, particularly in the black bars on 185 and 235 movies. However, the picture itself looks great in my case, even though I had to turn down the red a little bit from the blue filter optimized setting (I use VE to calibrate)
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  3. GregoriusM

    GregoriusM Second Unit

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    My Panasonic 27" GAOO that I recently purchased seems to have a distinct red push as well.
    I called the dealer's tech out and he said that everything was fine and that it was probably certain TV channels that had more red than others. Apparently they have a 20% leeway either way in their chrominance and luminance. Add 20% chrominance and deduct 20% luminance, and the predominant color - red - is out of whack.
    So, he said my TV was fine.
    HOWEVER, when I use AVIA to calibrate the TV, my blues and greens have to be way low in order to get the red at the proper place.
    Do you think this is normal, or should I pressure them to go into the service menu and "turn the red down".
    If I do, will I run into other troubles?
    Thanks for any help!
    ... Greg
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    .... just me up on my pony on my boat.
     
  4. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    Oh my gawd! Immediatly, go and buy a Bettercables Silver Serpernt Component cable...
    You will just not be satisfied till you get these according to many reviewers.
    Good Luck!
     
  5. Allan Jayne

    Allan Jayne Cinematographer

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    I am not ready to go out and buy expensive brand name cables yet.
    What needs to be looked at next is the color balance, usually requiring access to the service menu or to pots in the rear under the cover. See if you can reduce the red gain and blue gain.
    If you want to tinker with it yourself, it is going to be lots of trial and error. First check the seven color bar test pattern (AVIA) to see whether the basic colors red, green, blue, magenta, cyan, yellow come out clear. Then do the color tests with the flickering color squares. This last series of tests will detect things like red push that the service memu is not guaranteed to correct. If you can calibrate it so if one color is correct the other two are within five percent, the picture should look decent.
    I forget, is there a set of three "color gray scales"? This test pattern can reveal such things as one of the color signal paths overloading, resulting in washed out highlights. If the regular gray scale shows some of the stripes of different tints then others, then you have a color gray scale problem and you need the gray scales in color to make the adjustments with. If there are service mode adjustments called "gamma" you need the gray scale test pattern to adjust them at all and you need elaborate test equipment to adjust them properly.
    Also do a quick cable test. For component video try the three cables one at a time connecting the Y jack of the DVD player to the Y jack of the TV leaving the red and blue jacks empty. The green cable should give a black and white picture equal to or better than that from the other two cables, otherwise you have a defective cable set.
    Red push is quite common and not always fixable. The best fix is a compromise accomplished by turning down the red gain a bit. Whether you turn down the red versus turn up the green and blue is the trial and error part. The consequences are washed out highlights versus darker details lost shadows.
    Other video hints:http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/video.htm
     
  6. GregoriusM

    GregoriusM Second Unit

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    Thanks for that info, Allan.
    When my red is on in AVIA, my green an blue are like 20% away from where they should be. That's my trouble.
    Thanks!
    ... Greg
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    .... just me up on my pony on my boat.
     
  7. Ryan Pream

    Ryan Pream Stunt Coordinator

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    John,
    I hope you were joking. While it may be possible that a better cable may make subtle differences, no cable is going to magicly fix large scale color inaccuracies.
    Sounds like your best bet would be an ISF or go in and muck around with the gray scale settings yourself. I did the grey scale by eye on my TW40x81 and while I'm sure it could be better with an ISF calibration, I fixed the color problems that bothered me before. Just make sure you write down all the service mode parameters first.
    Ryan
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  8. Jay Mitchosky

    Jay Mitchosky Producer

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    Gregorius
    The Toshiba H series is not known for red push. It's actually pretty neutral when calibrated. Try testing another cable and see if that's the culprit. I would also encourage you to contact fellow Winnipeger Jeff Kowerchuk from the Forum. He's very experienced in calibrating Toshiba sets (he has a hot-rodded 56H80 himself) and can also correct your grayscale using a color analyzer. His set exhibits none of these glaring color errors. Neither does mine for that matter (50HX70).
    ------------------
    --Jay
    "No one can hear when you're screaming in digital."
    My Home Theatre Pictures...
    "You're no mesiah. You're, you're a movie of the week. You're a ... t-shirt, at best."
     
  9. ThomasL

    ThomasL Supporting Actor

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    Greg, red push on tvs is quite common. Unless there is a specific setting in the service menu to control the levels of each basic color (something akin to RGB settings on a computer monitor) or some special "turn red push off", there is probably not much you can do about it. Red push seems to be a disease that no manufacturer is immune to since I have a Toshiba 27A40 which has a very balanced and nice color decoder whereas the newer Toshiba 20AF41 flat tube model pushes red about +15 percent when blue is calibrated. Really the only solution is to lower the overall color saturation to the point where the oversaturated red doesn't bother you as much. This will, of course, undersaturate the other two colors.
    Adeel, since you have a Toshiba 65H80 and I believe others have stated that these sets have pretty balanced color decoders (I may be wrong), it is probably not a red push problem. Have you checked the color decoder pattern in Avia? Also, have you checked the grayscale patterns to see if you may be pushing a particular color in the high or low end of the grayscale? If it shows that things are fairly balanced, then I'd try a few tests and try to narrow the problem down:
    - What does non-dvd material look like?
    - If you're using component cables, try Svideo or composite and see if the problem remains, see what changes, etc.
    - Try a different DVD player if you can to see if it is something the JVC is doing.
    - Does changing the color temperature setting have any effect?
    hope this helps,
    --tom
     
  10. Chauncey2

    Chauncey2 Extra

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