Recommend a car for environmentally concious outdoorsman. (1 Viewer)

[Jason_Els]

...buying a Subaru Impreza 2.5 TS, which is kind of a bigger hatchback Impreza, smaller than the Forester but bigger than a WRX.

I don't know what salesperson fed you that line but the TS and the WRX use the same platform and same body save for a few trim pieces. Their dimensions, interior and exterior, are identical.

Because of their very high particulate exhaust, diesel VWs are illegal in states that have adopted California emission standards. I agree it seems like a nice car but where I am diesel is the same price as premium unleaded. Don't know what it's like in the rest of the country.

 

[Aaron Reynolds]

I don't know what salesperson fed you that line but the TS and the WRX use the same platform and same body save for a few trim pieces. Their dimensions, interior and exterior, are identical.

Interesting! I made the size observation just based on looking at the two of them. Must be the hatchback that makes the 2.5TS seem bigger. I suppose it's the same as the WRX wagon, which would probably be another good one to look at.

Diesel's cheaper than regular gas where I am.

 

[Ryan_C]

Dave,

I have an 2000 Jeep Cherokee, and absolutely love it. Nothing else in the world I would rather own SUV-wise. I would honestly rather have my Jeep than that new $70K Range Rover. Luxury SUV - BAH!!! And I get decent mileage when I drive it easy, I would say 18 mpg, give or take.

But I can vouch for the Subarus. In high school, my 85 Chevy S10 Blazer (nickmaed El Shitte ) got stuck in the mud when the 4wd went out. My buddy ran and got his Subaru 4 door wagon (of roughly the same year I think, about an 84/85) and pulled me out, I kid you not. That little blue car always had alot of my respect after that....

 

[Eric Kahn]

there are supposed to be 2004 Jeep liberty diesels out soon, will get over 30 MPG and have good power

 

[Jon_Welker]

How bout a Ford Excursion? Anyone suggest that yet???

 

[David Preston]

I second the Excursion choice. It is right along side the H2 for good gas mileage I will be buying a Tahoe or Yukon mid next year. I really like those a lot. I would get a H2 but I really don't like the idea of 10mpg. I'll stick with the Tahoe or Yukon.

 

[Todd Hochard]

The extremely high purchase price of the Acura. $36K to $42K BASE price???

The base thing is a bit of a misnomer. Options are quite limited- basically the range of price you quoted represents the options, which fall soundly into the fluff category- DVD entertainment, and Navigation system. Acura is like that- for instance, my TL-S basically comes with one factory option- DVD Navigation. You get the car with or without. Those are your choices.

My vote goes for the Scoobie.

 

[Aaron Reynolds]

there are supposed to be 2004 Jeep liberty diesels out soon, will get over 30 MPG and have good power

I read a report that Daimler Chrysler had ordered 120,000 diesel engines from VW. D-C also supposed to be working on their own new diesel engine (they showed a prototype to the EPA that passed the 2007 emissions test, as have VW and Toyota), but they say it isn't ready for market yet. The 120,000 engines are supposedly for mid-size and compact Mitsubishis and Chryslers, so I wonder what they're putting into the Liberty? I also don't know that the engines will even make it to North America, as the article was from a German website.

Vanessa picked up our VW Golf TDI last night, and we went for a bunch of driving. Well, Vanessa kept looking down at the speedometer and saying "ah, crap!" and slowing down. Big highlight: "I'm in third doing eighty, and it feels like I'm doing forty." (Those are km/h as we are Canucks.) The Golf is supposed to get 40-45 mpg. Vanessa's going on a cross-country road trip to Prince Edward Island to pick up her sister, so she's going to keep track of how far she gets on each tank of gas.

Anyways, a Liberty with one of these engines in it might be a really nice vehicle.

 

[David Preston]

Man I hope Tahoes get better than 13-14mpg. If thats it I will consider a H2 next year. People think I get bad gas mileage in my Z28. I average 20mpg thats with a few stop and go miles but mainly highway. Being a six speed does help though. Once I get a tune up I think it will get a little better like 21-23.

 

[Dave Poehlman]

there are supposed to be 2004 Jeep liberty diesels out soon, will get over 30 MPG and have good power

I read that someplace too.. I think I'll hold off and see what the '04's look like. Especially since I have a diesel station not far from my house.

The only drawback would be that you have to keep diesel fuel warm in the winter or else it "gels". (that's why you always see truckers leaving their trucks on in the winter) Unless they've found some way to get around the temperature issue. I know the current Libertys come with an optional engine warmer... how do those work? My friends dad drove a diesel Suburban back in the 80's and I remember he had to plug it in.

 

[Ryan_C]

Dave,

One thing to keep in mind if you look at a Liberty, is that they are IFS (Independent full suspension), versus Jeep's tried and true solid live axle system that has been on EVERY single jeep since they started building them way back in the day. The Liberty is the first IFS.

The IFS thing isn't as durable if you taking it four-wheeling and off roading, there are many more parts to break if you do, and if you every put a lift kit on it, those cost more too.

The IFS actually provides a smoother ride than solid axles on the road, so if you just tool around town or some light off roading like you mentioned, you will be fine. That's why Jeep did it. Hardly and SUVs really see snow conditions, much less dirt.

Now this might be a moot point (moo point if you are Joey from Friends) if you don't plan on doing any of those things. If you do however, I would choose a used Cherokee or a new Grand first.

The IFS certainly isn't a problem by any means. But if you ever decide you want a 4 inch lift and a set of 33 inch BFG's on it, then it might.

Just an FYI, HTH.

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

IFS?

The Hummvee has an IRS which is part of the reason it has good ground clearance. The problem with a live rear end is that the differential will always be at a constant height above the ground. A lift kit doesn't help - the body goes up but the diff. stays at that same constant height above the ground. Always amazes me when people "get a lift kit so's I can have better ground clearance." :rolleyes

 

[Ryan_C]

Dennis,

I wasn't suggesting that he would put a lift kit on for the ground clearance.

A lift kit doesn't help - the body goes up but the diff. stays at that same constant height above the ground. Always amazes me when people "get a lift kit so's I can have better ground clearance."

This is totally true. You might gain, maybe an inch of height of the diffs, if you throw bigger tires on. Lift kits do almost nothing for ground clearance, unless you throw something massive like 35's or something on. Lift kits are are articulation and traction on the trail, plain and simple.

As for the Hummer and Liberty both being IFS, the two don't even compare. The Hummer is built like a Abrams tank, as are every part of the IFS and the rest of the vehicle. The Liberty's IFS system doesn't hold a candle to the Hummer, as far a durability goes. Not that it's bad, but it's just not a fair comparison.

 

[Scott L]

It may not be good on gas mileage but it sure is manly looking.



For a non-gas guzzler though I'd check out a Subaru or Honda/Acura SUV.

 

[Philip_G]

I would 2nd/3rd/4th the forester, grab an XT, lots of torque, and turbocharged

 

[AllanN]

but it sure is manly looking.

Manley looking yes. Bud id still take a restored military surplus H1 over any H2.

 

[Aaron Reynolds]

The TDI engine is capable of operating at temperatures below what could normally be expected for a given fuel, because the fuel filter is heated by fuel being returned from the injection system. If fuel gels up in the filter, the engine will generally start, but won't have power to do much other than idle for a few minutes until the fuel filter warms up ... but at least you'll get going. It will only handle so much, though, and the car will not run in -20 C with summer diesel fuel. Under very cold start-up conditons (and this means in the -30 C range), you may need to wait for several minutes with the engine idling before driving off to allow the fuel to be warmed. Otherwise, power will be impaired or the engine may stall as the injector pump will be starved for fuel.

So the big issue is one of fuel -- make sure your local gas station has a fairly high turnover of diesel fuel so that by the time the cold weather comes you're getting new winter diesel and not leftover summer diesel.

There are also additives that you can buy and throw in the tank if you have a tankful of summer stuff in the winter. You can get the additive at truck stops. Truck stops are also a good place to get diesel fuel that is fresh. I don't know how the Liberties will be set up, but the Golf has an oversized opening into the gas tank that will fit the bigger truck-sized nozzles on the pumps at the truck stop, you just have to turn the pump all the way down so that it doesn't splash back.

Basically, what I've learned from reading tdiclub.com is that if you need something for your diesel vehicle, you can get it at a truck stop.

 

[Dave Poehlman]

If fuel gels up in the filter, the engine will generally start, but won't have power to do much other than idle for a few minutes until the fuel filter warms up

So, basically it'll be just like driving my old '72 Dodge Coronet in the winter.

Thanks for all the info on diesel, Aaron. I'd have to check with my local station on their diesel practices. I'm getting more and more interested in the diesel Liberty.

I hope the '04's come with an obnoxious yellow.

 

[Scott L]

Bud id still take a restored military surplus H1 over any H2

Don't be so sure, my friend is a mechanic in the military and works on humvees all too often. He says they're junk despite public opinion.

 

[Michael Were]

Dave,

I would sarcastically suggest the UNIMOG


I have had an 89 Subaru GL since 94. While in college I used it going to go to Mt. Bachelor from Eugene, OR 3 days a week. On days of 3 foot dumps I never got out of 2WD. I've only chained up once to get to a competition on Mt. Hood Timberline.

Logging roads have never been a problem either. I would hike at Kentucky Falls, Warner Creek, and HJ Andrews Experimental Forest during the rainy season and never had a problem except for a timing belt going out. Luckily I could coast down the logging road to get out.

Now that I have moved to SW Colorado, I've been skiing to Telluride & taken mining roads outside of Silverton. My favorite is seeing Texans on the Mining Road in those tour Hummers. They always look so confused by my wife and me rallying along tailing piles and over ruts etc.

In WI, I bet you have to deal with primarily mud or snow on the way to your trips. You really don't need four wheel drive you need to keep momentum. Its the dirty secret of driving.

Cars are nasty anyway you look at it. If you want an eco-car I recommend going used (feeding lower on the food chain).

If you want new go with the civic hybrid.

If you're sold on 4WD I would go with the subaru legacy GT not the outback. You really don't want the molding along the bottom of your rig if you plan on using it to drive on logging/mining roads. That stuff is expensive to replace and completely cosmetic.

Good luck,

Michael