Reciever Brands? (1 Viewer)

[Sean Laughter]

I'm still confused about this Pioneer at Spidergear though. Phil is referring to the 709S which he says has a list price in the $780 range (and Pioneer says the same thing ). But Spidergear lists the receiver on their site as just a plain VSX-D709 (no 'S') and says it has a list price of $329.00. I can't for the life of me figure out what the difference in list price could mean though I'd assume there has to be some difference!

 

[Ted Lee]

i know what scott is saying and i certainly wish i had the bankroll to have two dedicated systems. i suppose if i had the extra cash, then that would certainly be an option for me.
but i'm poor. so...
i take comfort in telling myself (although i think many would agree) that if a system performs well enough for 2-channel sound, it's more then adequate for ht. it also seems to me that many reviewers will audition gear in 2-channel mode first, simply because it gives a more dynamic (and realistic?) impression of what the gear is capable of doing.
ht, for the most part, is just dialogue. music, on the other hand, is constant dynamic range.
but, like i said, if i had the cash, i'd probably do the same thing.
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[Wil_J]

Hmm.....True Sean. I didn't notice that. That is something I'd like to know too......Wil

 

[Scott H]

Scott or others who think like that

It's not a 'think like that' situation, it's a having listened to countless systems for twenty years observation. And, I reiterate, music is critical to me. You must be directing that comment as well to those who write for many of the publications we all read as well, since it is typically proved out by the veritable ears of reviewers (yes, that's somewhat tongue in cheek). I would have to listen to your system to have any valid opinion one way or another.
I would make two off-hand comments about your system, per your invitation:
I have concerns right away that you have determined to incorporate a critical component which you haven't even heard in your system - the forthcoming Outlaw Pre/Pro. I would wager that I wouldn't personally be pleased with the musicality just do to the odds of this means of equipment pairing, especially if you may have placed other components that way. Also, I have yet to hear any hybrid CD/DVD players that sound as good as dedicated CD players at any price point. I'm also not a big fan of subs in music setups. This it totally subjective of course, It may all sound better to you than it would to me. It may also sound good to me. I'm just postulating.
Your system helps to make my point that it can be less expensive to create two systems that may serve each purpose noticable better than a single hybrid system. I would guess that the cost of your system totals over $3500-4000. I am proposing that you can put together two very good autonomous systems for well under that cost.
There is, of course, nothing 'wrong' with your system Steve_D. It's a very respectable assemblage of quality gear.
Again, I wouldn't even consider two systems if I hadn't concluded it is a less expensive means to an end.
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[Steve_D]

Scott,
Valid points. Thanks for your opinions, I do value them and take into account the alternatives as I continue to upgrade my system. Actually, $3500-4000 gets you the Amps and Speakers.

I would answer that the pre-pro is the only piece I will purchase probably unheard, and when it arrives I will compare it to the B&K Ref 20 among others. This due to the fact that the processor piece is mostly for HT, and I can add an external DAC and use the analog bypass. But, there is little arguing that a dedicated 2 channel pre-amp would be an improvement for 2 channel music. And since I am just now in the middle of an upgrade mode, I have yet to get to the point where I'm experimenting with different cables...hence the Monsters M's as 'old reliable'.
Almost every other point you make is arguable, from subs for music (many high end designs have separate enclosures for woofers) to whether or not a combo player is a compromise in my price range versus a separate CD/Prog DVD.
B&W speakers? Which ones? I compared everything up through the CDM1NT and to my ears they came up short to the 'digms. Acurus over B&K? Again, not to MY ears (of course speaker/amp combo is important here) However, you and I are willing to concede (hopefully) these are similar quality stuff...with different sounds which different people will prefer.
But your HT system lacks a subwoofer! And 65 watts/channel is going to leave you lacking. Well, maybe not played through JBL N series speakers....nothing against them at their price point but they are not in the same league with Studios.
It seems to me that my sytem is geared toward 50/50 all in one, while your solution is superior is 2 channel by a small percentage but pretty largely inferior in HT.
Again, nothing wrong with that, its all in the priorities you have, but taken in this context your 2 systems for the price of 1 doesn't make as much sense to me.
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[Scott H]

Steve_D...
I accidentally left off the sub for the HT. I will amend that right now. The Sony SA-WM40 of course

Regarding the cost of your gear, I consider costs as a combo of the items I would/can acquire used and new, definitely not list. There aren't many consumer goods that are better suited to used purchase than mid/high-end audio stuff. I could definitely acquire your amps and speakers for under $2100 used, in my market (4420 @ c$500; ST-140 @ c$250; all Paradigms for c$1300).
Also, I think I have been more impressed with the HT sound from the Northridge line more than the Studio line. Again, there seems to be some similar perspective in reviews I have read. I have certainly not settled on any speakers for HT yet though, and am not dismissing your input. The hard part is finding a setup of these lesser expensive JBL speakers with pricier equipment in finer rooms to listen.
Btw, I got my Acurus A250 in St. Louis at Flip's. For B&K there was that place in Webster Groves, in an old white house... For Rotel in Frontenac, in the basement of the original Ladue elementary school at the corner of Clayton... And in the early 80s a good friend worked at the place in Olivette (Antec?), they sold a lot of McIntosh stuff to my friends dads. Still have a Carver C-1 pre-amp from those days...
Regarding my system ideas not making sense to you, considering I have a two-channel music system in place that pleases me, how would you propose building a HT that can deliver good movie and great music performance for under $1000? It is in this exact context that my idea makes sense, to me. And I'm quite serious and very interested in your answer.
In my opinion the Outlaw 1050 or Onkyo 595 or similar receiver, the Sony sub, and a package like the Northridge speakers for around a grand will result in very respectable HT performance. With the receiver being the corner stone, and the speakers having to prove their worth for retainment.
Apologies to Wil_J for stealing some of his thread

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Runaway production? No thanks. Where I've filmed, benefiting local economies: AL, CA, ID, IL, IN, IA, KS, MN, MO, MT, NV, OH, OR, TX, WA, WY.

 

[Mark Dubbelboer]

Any updates Wil_J?
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Good... Bad... I'm the guy with the gun.

 

[Norm Strong]

Buy the Kenwood VR-509. It might be hard to find it for $300, but I'm positive you can get the VR-507 for that price. These receivers have every feature a young boy could want, and a couple extras that are unique to Kenwood. Certainly, they have all the features discussed in this thread so far.
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Norm Strong ([email protected])

 

[Mark Dubbelboer]

oh and on a sidenote just for any intersted parties
the specs on spidergear.com 's website and the pioneer electronics website have the exact same specs, power, etc. information
I don't believe there is a difference between the 709 and the 709s...just lazy data input
the variation in msrp is very difficult to comprehend tho

 

[Wil_J]

As far as updates go, I've decided to get the Onkyo 494. The 595 is nice, but it's also a little bit more money, and I don't need all of the features that the 595 has. The 494 will work fine for me.
Thanks for everybody's help......Wil

 

[Sean Laughter]

As far as updates go, I've decided to get the Onkyo 494

You and me both Wil_J, enjoy!

 

[Wil_J]

You and me both Wil_J, enjoy!

Believe me, I plan to!

Have fun with yours!......Wil