Receivers???

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Rudy Cardona, May 12, 2005.

  1. Rudy Cardona

    Rudy Cardona Auditioning

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    hello everyone , this is my first post here and i am a huge and very knowledgeble car audio hobbyst, i am just about to start my first home audio set up so i got lots of questions.
    But this one is about home audio "receivers", im car audio a receiver will probably not be enough power for most speakers or at least any serious audio system.

    So im home audio is it alright to do a system off the "receiver power" or should speakers me amplified?I was thinking of getting a harmon kardon 430 or 630,keep im mind i know nothing about home audio and i come from a car audio backround, i will be doing a 5.1 with adire kit 261 (L,R) center kit LCR and rears probably some other kit.I am looking forward to this brand new hobby of mines and hope i can learn a lot here.
     
  2. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    Welcome [​IMG]

    It depends on the power requirements for those particular kits. The 261s are farily new, but since you already know about them, wherever you heard about them might be the place to see if you can find out what nominal impedance they are (8, 6, or 4 Ohm), then someone should be able to say if a 430 or 630 would drive them adequately. Even at a nominal 8 Ohm impedance, as in car audio, some speakers just require more power to drive them properly, so it would be good to know what other people are driving them with and what they recommend in terms of power. If the are 8 Ohm, my guess is the 630 would probably be fine.

    I'm using www.gr-research.com A/V-2s, which are 4 Ohm and I found that they wanted more power than my receiver was OK with for 3 of them at the lower impedance.

    Definitely lots to learn here.

    *edit OK, just checked, the 261s are 8 Ohm nominal, but they have a somewhat lower sensitivity of 89dB. Not bad, but that would lead me to recommend going no lower than the 630 if you have a large room.

    Matching surrounds, I'd probably suggest the Kit61s. They are an even lower 86dB sensitivity, though that can be compensated for somewhat in the receiver with speaker level adjustments.
     
  3. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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    That will match the speaker levels, but of course it isn’t buying any additional power. If the 61’s are 3dB down in sensitivity that means it will take twice the power to drive them at the same volume as the 261.

    That doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll have problems driving them. For one thing, when you set your speakers to “small” it will roll out the bass, which gets you extra mileage, as it were, from your available power.

    Also, some receiver manufacturers “fudge” on their power ratings. I think HK is better in this regards than most – i.e., their ratings are more honest (John probably knows better about this than I do). So as long as your room isn’t too big you should okay with the 630. Your choice in equipment is pretty advanced for a self-professed noob! [​IMG]

    Regards,
    Wayne A. Pflughaupt
     
  4. Rudy Cardona

    Rudy Cardona Auditioning

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    ^^^[​IMG] ive learned a LOT being around forums, i honestly had no interest at all in audio , i just wanted some bass in my car( 2 years ago) then when all the problems started coming and i was getting screwed left and right by shops i had to learn this, but thank you i learned ONE very important thing from my car audio experience

    RESEARCH A LOT, DO IT ONCE AND DO IT RIGHT.

    that will save you a lot of money.[​IMG] thank you guys for youre replys it looks like i will be getting this receiver in about 1 month, any other imputs???, oh and by the way what do you guys think about adire audio???
     
  5. Charlie Campisi

    Charlie Campisi Screenwriter

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    Welcome!

    Do you have any background in car audio? [​IMG]

    You didn't mention a sub. Since you said 5.1, I assume you are planning on running one. My limited experience with car audio came across the term "full" when setting your head unit without a sub. In home audio, you set your receiver to "small" for your speakers when running a sub, and "large" when not. Just wanted to clarify John's and Wayne's posts in case that was missed. As they suggest, by running a powered sub you can lighten the load on your receiver since the speakers won't be used for bass.
     
  6. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    I only know about Adire by their sub drivers, but by all accounts, I don't think you have anything to worry about soundwise or quality-wise. I'd say they're a good choice.
     
  7. Rudy Cardona

    Rudy Cardona Auditioning

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    Wow you see i had no idea of that whole "small" "large" thing and i probably dont know what the other 90% of the functions in receivers are LOL. I do not plan on running a subwoofer for a couple of reasons

    1)money, i am going to spend a lot on my speaker/receiver/accessory set up.
    2)im not gona have much demand for sub-bass, im going to play mostly video games and listen to rock music.
    3)these kit 261 towers are going to exceed my expections of any bass from 30-60hz anayways.


    The reason im going with the speakers ive choosen is because of the amazing bass performance, the towers have a very impresive midbass/mid driver called the "Extremis" a VERY impressive and capable driver(has 13mm one-way linear xmax!) and my set up incorporate dual ported extremis, What really convinced me was the review Dan Wiggens himself made after listening to his kit LCR's

    (forum.soundillusions.net/showthread.php?t=49646)

    these things sound VERY VERY amazing and my friend who has the kit 61 says the bass is impressive(1 extremis ported only!)

    And as far as my car audio backround im a backyard installer currently, and i plan on attendint the snake pit(audio school) in san diego in 3 months,get MECP certified, learn as much as i can before i start my installer career and who knows from there.
     
  8. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    Rudy,

    If you are looking at the H/K receivers, you might consider the 435 or 635 as those are the newest models and feature a new EQ setup.
     
  9. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    If you've listened to car stereos without a sub and then added one, you will understand why a sub is VERY important to your overall system. If you think rock, or any other music, somehow won't benefit from a sub, well, that's just a mistake. You could pick up something as simple as the Dayton 10" sub from www.partsexpress.com for $125 to add low end support.
     
  10. GregoriusM

    GregoriusM Second Unit

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    I agree. There are very few speaker systems that wouldn't benefit from a sub, ESPECIALLY for rock music!

    As mentioned, you will free up your receiver to put out "cleaner" music from your speakers if it doesn't have to push out the bass, even if you think your bass is good enough from the speakers.
     
  11. Steven Kephart

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    I suggest listening to the speakers first and deciding afterward whether you want a sub or not. The 261's get down VERY low with authority. Room size and personal tastes may dictate that you don't need a subwoofer. This could save you that $100+ to use elsewhere.

    Just to get you an idea, here's a review posted about the Kit61's: http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/...37&KW=extremis

    Steven Kephart
    Adire Audio
     
  12. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    For music, I have no problem listening without a sub, and my little 2ch setup has no sub and no need for one. It can be done, and I'm not saying a sub is "required", it's just more fun with one [​IMG]

    For movies though, there's no way I would be satisfied without a sub after having been spoiled by having one.
     
  13. James Phung

    James Phung Second Unit

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    Rudy,
    When looking at and comparing receivers, don't be turned off my harman kardon's wattage numbers. They rate their receivers will all channels driven (where others may only rate their numbers with 1 or 2 channels driven). HKs are more powerful than most comparable receivers in their price range. I'd recommend taking a bunch of your cds and take some time and demo as many receivers as you can and get the one that you think sounds best.

    As to how much power you need, it depends on how big your room is. If it's quite big, you may need additional amps to get more power to your speakers.

    Speaker placement is also important, as well as sub placement. This is one of the reasons many people want a separate sub so that they can place it in the perfect spot. Having speakers with good bass can be good, but it can also cause some problems.
     

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