Receiver "PROTECT" on certain DVD's?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Robert Sun, Aug 24, 2002.

  1. Robert Sun

    Robert Sun Agent

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    Hello,
    I've recently put together my first attempt at home theatre. With limited budget I bought a MARANTZ SR 4200 amp, and ENERGY XL 26 Mains, XL C2 centre, XL 15 rears. The front speakers are connected with very thick cable that the dealer gave me ( I think 10 gauge?) and the rears have a very long run of 10 meters each but are connected with very thin cable (I think 16 gauge).
    My problem is the amp going into PROTECT mode when playing DVD mode. I have been reading on the topic in the forums and have checked the wires and rewired them. My amp is not overheating as far as I can feel. I have only tested it with 3 DVD's. One being the demo disc that came with the DVD player (has previews of Mummy 2, The Patriot, Gladiator, Vertical Limit) which I played at -5 dB's and did not have any problems with. I also rented Lord of the Rings and had no problems with it. BUT when I play Harry Potter I can only reach about -15 dB's before it goes into protect mode in suddenly loud sequences.
    When listening to Music I can turn it up to 0dB's no problem so far it's only the Harry Potter DVD that seems to upset the amp.
    IS IT POSSIBLE that it is the way the sound is produced onto the Harry Potter DVD that causes this problem? Or am I expecting too much volume? I read that others felt reaching -15 dB's was pretty good. I'd like it louder myself [​IMG] Am I expecting too much from my amp? Could my amp be faulty?
    Sorry for the long post, but it's my first one. Any help much appreciated!
     
  2. Gerard Martin

    Gerard Martin Second Unit

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    Just a guess, check the dynamic range you have set on your receiver, if it at MAX try setting it at STD or MIN and see if that will help Harry. Good luck.
     
  3. Kevin. W

    Kevin. W Screenwriter

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    Is the receiver in an open or closed unit? Anything on top of it? What I would do is connect only the front speakers and test it. THen connect the center and test it, then the surrounds. See at which point it goes into Protect. Did you calibrate the speakers with sound level meter? Did you happen to set each speaker level in the setup to max? Have you set your speakers to small in the setup and subwoofer to yes if you have one?

    Kevin
     
  4. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Hi Robert

    Not familar with the Marantz but after trying or before as this is an easy fix if your Marantz has it!
    Many up-line Pioneers have an attenuator button for just this problem when all other things are correct to begin with! Wiring, set up, proper speaker cali volumes etc.

    My neighbor has not run into any protect problems with DVD's on his Pioneer but a few ~{CD,s}~ using (analog input), over drive the inputs and the protect starts to light and then the receiver goes into protect mode. A push of the button drops the input level 3db and all is well.

    As stated, I am not familar with the Marantz layout, it may or may not have this feature. Other Marantz owners would know and surly will let you know if this is available on your unit.

    Edit:
    Another possibility, dose you DVD player have a volume output control? If so, try backing it down a notch or two on the DVD's that do this. Again "assuming" all other things are correct as mentioned above and buy others....

    Regards
    Geoff
     
  5. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    John
    If the receiver can handle LOTR, then the problem is something far more specific. LOTR is a more stressful DVD for a receiver to handle than Harry Potter, IMO. How is the DVD player hooked to the receiver - analog or digital? Have you tried both?

    As far as dynamic range control, there is only "night mode", and it is either on or off. The suggestion that this feature may be on your DVD player's settings is worth looking into though.

    I agree with Kevin W also, try disconnecting and reconnecting only certain speakers with the passages that are shutting down the receiver to see if it may be a specific issue with a pair or even just one speaker.

    I have a 6200, with my calibrated reference at -8, -20 is moderately loud in my 25x14x10 room, -15 is quite loud for most listening. For the same listening levels, in a similar sized (but different shaped) room, I calibrated a 5200 (85wpc) and found it to be about 2dB lower in volume for the same level as mine, and the 4200 has 15wpc less power than that.

    I wouldn't expect the 4200 to have a problem with the XL 26 mains, but I don't know what kind of current they draw. Start by disconnecting these first and see how the system does without them. What impedance are these speakers?
     
  6. Robert Sun

    Robert Sun Agent

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    Thanks for the advice everyone. I guess I should start with AVIA and SPL meter. and then try connecting each speaker as suggested. If it goes protect with a particular speaker connected does that mean I have a faulty speaker? Also wouldn't it make a difference anyway to the system comparing one speaker connected to all 5 speakers connected?

    My DVD player has "night" mode but I guess this will just have the effect of lowering the loud booms. But I want the booms to be LOUD :b .

    John, my Energy speakers are 8 ohms impedance.

    I also just watched ALI DVD with volume at -10 dB and no problems with that DVD either.....
     
  7. Kevin. W

    Kevin. W Screenwriter

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  8. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    Hi Robert. Welcome to HTF!
    First, your speaker wire:
    The longer runs of speaker wire should be thicker, not the short runs. Several speaker sites recommend the following based on the run-length:
    1-10 ft: 16 ga
    11-20 ft: 14 ga
    20+ ft: 12 ga
    It's not a power thing. A long run of speaker wire will 'slant' the sound by reducing the higher-frequency sounds a LOT more than the lower frequency ones. A thicker wire helps compensate for this.
    Hint: Most of us buy a spool of 12 ga wire and use it everywhere.
    PROTECT Mode:
    The lobby shoot-out scene in The Matrix is famous for doing this to receivers. The low-frequency sounds take a lot more power to produce than others. (This is why they sell self-powered subs, but not self-powered tweeters.)
    Test #1: Go to your receiver and find the setup menu where you tell it if your speakers are LARGE or SMALL. Define all your speakers as SMALL.
    Play Harry Potter. Does the receiver get through it? If not, you have a wireing problem.
    If so, define only your L/R speakers as LARGE and play again.
    My theory is this: you have all your speakers defined as LARGE. So the movie is trying to send power-intensive low frequency sounds to all 5 speakers. This is too much current/power for the receiver so it shuts itself down to protect itself.
    If I'm right, you have 3 solutions:
    1) Only make the L/R speakers LARGE, everything else small (cheap to do)
    2) Add an external, self-powered sub and define all your speakers as SMALL. (highly recommended)
    3) Buy an new, more powerfull amp.
    Good Luck.
     
  9. Robert Sun

    Robert Sun Agent

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    Bob,
    Thanks for the help. With regards to the wire thickness yes I did read that in the forum, longer runs = thicker wire. But when I went to the home theatre shop to buy my equiptment the salesperson (maybe he didn't know what he was talking about although it was a specialty home theatre store!) said that for very long runs thicker gauge wire will draw too much power from the amp?? I'm not sure if thicker wire means better sound but more power drawn? I tried to look this up in the forum but I couldn't find anything about it.[​IMG]
    With regards to my speaker settings. As I couldn't afford a good subwoofer, I set my L/R Mains to LARGE and the Centre and rears to SMALL. I haven't tried running all 5 at small yet I will try that tonight and see what happens!
    My initial main concern was I had bought a faulty reciever, but reading more info on it in the forums seems like -15dB is pretty loud for most people, although I haven't calibrated yet with AVIA and SPL.
    Anyway I really appreciate everyones help, if anyone else has any other suggestions........
     
  10. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    I'm afraid your salesman knows little about basic electronics. The thicker/thin wire draws the same current. It's the speaker at the end that changes it's impedence and changes the current draw.

    Try running all 5 small, then try just the center as LARGE.

    And once again - check the wires to the L/R speakers at BOTH ends. Make sure not a single strand of copper is sticking out to cause a short. This has been the source of many similar problems to yours.
     
  11. Robert Sun

    Robert Sun Agent

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    Bob,

    I didn't think he had it right, thanks for confirming it.

    With the copper wires, the cable to the front and centre speakers is so thick it doesn't fit into the "hole" where they attach to the speakers. MOST of it fits but I tried and tried but I can't stop one or two strands from not going in. I MADE sure that the strands were not touching another from positive to negative. IS this good enough or is it possible even if they are not touching for it to short out?
     
  12. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    Those stray strands of copper need to touch to cause a problem. But if they touch the back of your amp, or other wires lay on top, the may eventually cause a short.

    Do you have Radio Shack in Oz? They carry a dual-banana plug, part xxx-308 that makes it easy to do a neat wire job. Buy one set and make sure your receiver's binding posts have the correct spacing. I use the dual plugs for my speakers, but they stick out a bit far for behind the receiver. RS has some single banana plugs (xxx-306) that work well for this.
     

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