RAINTREE COUNTY on Blu? (2 Viewers)

[Irishman]

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[Irishman]

 

[Robert Harris]

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An extremely low resolution image that tells us, what? Appears to be Linda Crystal and possibly Laurence Harvey holding a jug from The Alamo?

 

[Irishman]

The above screenshot is taken from the best copy of Raintree County that is available in Europe- a DVD that was bought in Germany, Das Land des Regenbaums, which has German and English soundtracks. You are lucky to have TCM transmitting it in HD from time to time in the US. I have seen TCM broadcast it in the UK but only in SD 4:3 ratio.

 

[RolandL]

TCMHD broadcast taken with my old iPhone. The colors are off as the dress is deep red not orange.

 

[Irishman]

While reading earlier postings I noted that there has been some discussion about the "Camera 65 Window on the World" title card that followed the Lionhead Trademark on 16mm prints of Raintree County. Here is an image of how my scope print looks now. The Glorious Pink is bad enough but I'm afraid that I have added to its sorry state by shooting it through a magnifying glass that has played as much havoc with the definition as Eastman chemistry and time has played with its colour.

 

[OliverK]

While reading earlier postings I noted that there has been some discussion about the "Camera 65 Window on the World" title card that followed the Lionhead Trademark on 16mm prints of Raintree County. Here is an image of how my scope print looks now. The Glorious Pink is bad enough but I'm afraid that I have added to its sorry state by shooting it through a magnifying glass that has played as much havoc with the definition as Eastman chemistry and time has played with its colour.

Thanks for posting this and yes it has the standard Eastman color - don't feel guilty about that!

The framing is interesting as there is no added picture information on the sides compared to the scope prints but instead some additional top and bottom cropping:

source: http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/wingup2.htm

I have been wondering for a long time if 16mm scope prints may have shown added information on the edges of the frame but it looks like they were struck from the same elements as the 35mm scope prints and the wider 16mm scope aspect ratio was achieved by matting of both the top and bottom of the frame.

 

[RolandL]

Bought the VHS tape that was supposed to have the "Nearly 15 Minutes of Footage Not Seen Since Its 1957 Premiere Engagements". It doesn't. I should have known it was the general release when at the bottom of the back cover it has "172 Mins". The version that is shown on TCM is about 166 minutes. This tape has the Overture and Entr'acte which are 6 minutes and 30 seconds combined. The only way to see the full roadshow 187 minute version, is if you know someone that recorded the TCM broadcast back in 1996. That was letterboxed within 4x3 so it will not look that great.

 

[Mark B]

Bought the VHS tape that was supposed to have the "Nearly 15 Minutes of Footage Not Seen Since Its 1957 Premiere Engagements". It doesn't. I should have known it was the general release when at the bottom of the back cover it has "172 Mins". The version that is shown on TCM is about 166 minutes. This tape has the Overture and Entr'acte which are 6 minutes and 30 seconds combined. The only way to see the full roadshow 187 minute version, is if you know someone that recorded the TCM broadcast back in 1996. That was letterboxed within 4x3 so it will not look that great.

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I tried three times to get the longer version on VHS (same packaging as seen here) and got ripped off in the same way as you did, twice. The third time I did indeed get the longer version. In glorious Pan and Scan.

 

[RolandL]

I tried three times to get the longer version on VHS (same packaging as seen here) and got ripped off in the same way as you did, twice. The third time I did indeed get the longer version. In glorious Pan and Scan.

187 minute version on VHS?

 

[midvalleyguy]

I have a copy of the 1996 TCM broadcast running 188 minutes (PAL). Not a pleasant viewing experience due to glorious windowboxing , but better than nothing. At least it has the Overture, Intermission title card, and Entr'acte.

I don't think I'll still be around when/if a Blu Ray is ever released.

 

[Mark B]

187 minute version on VHS?

Yes. It did get a release.

 

[Mark B]

187 minute version

I think they screwed up at the factory and put old product in new sleeves, because the others had stickers on the tape with MGM/UA logo, not this printed on the plastic type with the WB logo.

Edit: I tried to attach a video of my screen playing the tape but HTF is not recognizing the file. Here are screen caps of the video. Tape 1 begins with Operation Raintree, the trailer, the church Overture is the giveaway to the long version, the opening scene, and the cut into the scene with Rod Taylor.

 

[RolandL]

I think they screwed up at the factory and put old product in new sleeves, because the others had stickers on the tape with MGM/UA logo, not this printed on the plastic type with the WB logo.

Edit: I tried to attach a video of my screen playing the tape but HTF is not recognizing the file. Here are screen caps of the video. Tape 1 begins with Operation Raintree, the trailer, the church Overture is the giveaway to the long version, the opening scene, and the cut into the scene with Rod Taylor. View attachment 154289 View attachment 154290 View attachment 154291 View attachment 154292 View attachment 154293 View attachment 154294

Thanks Mark!

I didn't know they eventually did correct the error.

I found someone who had a copy of the TCM broadcast. He copied it to DVD. It's letterboxed but looks worse than your screen shots with less color.

 

[Mark B]

Thanks Mark!

I didn't know they eventually did correct the error.

I found someone who had a copy of the TCM broadcast. He copied it to DVD. It's letterboxed but looks worse than your screen shots with less color.

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I have a VHS of the TCM broadcast backed up to mp4, but you can't get milk from a stone. It is a document, not an optimal viewing experience. I'm not a fan of the film, but I am a fan of film history so I am glad to have that document. (And the shots I posted here are of a 13" CRT screen so naturally they will look much different than the actual tape.)

 

[OliverK]

I find it depressing that the roadshow version of Raintree County should only be available in that kind of quality.

I know they will not do it but if Warner were to release a bare bones Blu-ray derived from scans of those 35mm roadshow prints with state of the art color correction and some basic cleanup I would be all over it.

 

[mark brown]

Nope! Show it as intended or not at all!

 

[Andrew Budgell]

Sam Posten asked Mr. Feltenstein about Raintree on the Home Theater United podcast episode released yesterday. He described Raintree as a "nightmare of complexity" and encouraged listeners to check out The Extras August Mailbag (which I recapped earlier in this thread) for a deeper dive into the issues surrounding the film.

He did say this: "It's going to take a lot of time and a lot of money to put something together that at best will still be imperfect. It's something that both myself and the gentleman who is our director of preservation, who's also been a dear friend and a good colleague of mine for a very long time, we're both dedicated to getting it done and we've been trying like hell. But we need to also have a little bit more of a stable company environment and all indications are we're getting there so there's hope but I don't want to give false hope. It may be several years away. It's obviously something we're aware of and it's not easy".

 

[OliverK]

Nope! Show it as intended or not at all!

The 35mm roadshow is what was intended when it was released.
It would also cost a fraction of what it would cost to work on the 65mm elements and it is even possible that these faded prints have been scanned already when Warner received them so there may be digital assets that Warner could work with.

An uncut 65mm roadshow no doubt was also intended at some point but if we follow your argument it will never be shown as the 65mm cuts have been discarded so in any case what we will get will be imperfect but one version would be a lot less costly than the other and it will be good to have it for people who may not live to see that less imperfect version 5 or 10 years away.

In any case obviously Warner is making these decisions and so far they have always decided to not release at all which means it is unlikely that we will get something that is derived from 35mm elements. This is even more true now that Warner has in house 65mm scanning capability which may be a game changer for some of their 65mm assets.

 

[Matt Hough]

Where did Raintree County play in New York City for its premiere engagement in 1957? The Loewe's State? The Capitol? The Criterion?