RAINTREE COUNTY on Blu? (1 Viewer)

[Andrew Budgell]

Happy 97th birthday, Eva Marie Saint!

 

[Andrew Budgell]

Set your DVRs!

TCM will air RAINTREE COUNTY tomorrow (August 28, 2021) at 8:15 AM EST!

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Went to set the recording on my TiVo only to find out Verizon Fios doesn’t have an HD version of TCM.

 

[RolandL]

RARE 16mm Feature: RAINTREE COUNTY (ELIZABETH TAYLOR--MONTGOMERY CLIFT) MGM EPIC on eBay. Maybe the full roadshow? 1600 ft. is 44 minutes but maybe not 44 minutes on each real. On five reels it would be 220 minutes if 44 minutes on each one. The roadshow was 188 minutes.

I contacted the seller:

"It's a flat print. Looks very long, but not sure of the exact running time."

So it's not the full CinemaScope AR. 16mm are usually 2.66 if scope.

 

[OliverK]

RARE 16mm Feature: RAINTREE COUNTY (ELIZABETH TAYLOR--MONTGOMERY CLIFT) MGM EPIC on eBay. Maybe the full roadshow? 1600 ft. is 44 minutes but maybe not 44 minutes on each real. On five reels it would be 220 minutes if 44 minutes on each one. The roadshow was 188 minutes.

I contacted the seller:

"It's a flat print. Looks very long, but not sure of the exact running time."

So it's not the full CinemaScope AR. 16mm are usually 2.66 if scope.

Too bad, a flat print can easily miss half of the original picture information if it is full frame.

 

[RolandL]

Too bad, a flat print can easily miss half of the original picture information if it is full frame.

Yes, Raintree County was the first movie filmed in MGM Camera 65 process (same as Ben-Hur) 2.76 AR. But, it was only released in CinemaScope 2.35.

 

[Vern Dias]

Yes, Raintree County was the first movie filmed in MGM Camera 65 process (same as Ben-Hur) 2.76 AR. But, it was only released in CinemaScope 2.35.

The fine print at the bottom of the listing says "Color is turning" so I would expect it to be "shades of red and pink" eastman stock.

Films Inc. used to rent "flat" prints that were letterboxed.

 

[John Skoda]

Yes, Raintree County was the first movie filmed in MGM Camera 65 process (same as Ben-Hur) 2.76 AR. But, it was only released in CinemaScope 2.35.

Yes, I said this elsewhere, but it belongs in this thread:

RAINTREE has the dubious distinction of being the only Hollywood movie filmed on 65mm negative that has NEVER had a 70mm print made of it.

 

[Robert Harris]

Yes, I said this elsewhere, but it belongs in this thread:

RAINTREE has the dubious distinction of being the only Hollywood movie filmed on 65mm negative that has NEVER had a 70mm print made of it.

Why would you presume that?

 

[OliverK]

Why would you presume that?

I would think that he means public exhibition of movies shot between the 50s and 70s in the Hollywood studio system.

That obviously leaves out earlier 65mm movies shot around 1930 and also the later Samsara, not sure if there were others?

I remember that you mentioned looking into the assets that Warner had of Raintree County some time ago. Was there any 70mm test footage left? I am sure they must have done some testing for 70mm exhibition for Raintree County.

 

[Robert Harris]

I would think that he means public exhibition of movies shot between the 50s and 70s in the Hollywood studio system.

That obviously leaves out earlier 65mm movies shot around 1930 and also the later Samsara, not sure if there were others?

I remember that you mentioned looking into the assets that Warner had of Raintree County some time ago. Was there any 70mm test footage left? I am sure they must have done some testing for 70mm exhibition for Raintree County.

I’m quite certain there would have been 70mm dailies, although it was presumably edited in 35, which has been the norm.

 

[John Skoda]

I would think that he means public exhibition of movies shot between the 50s and 70s in the Hollywood studio system.

That obviously leaves out earlier 65mm movies shot around 1930 and also the later Samsara, not sure if there were others?

I remember that you mentioned looking into the assets that Warner had of Raintree County some time ago. Was there any 70mm test footage left? I am sure they must have done some testing for 70mm exhibition for Raintree County.

Yes, I meant 70mm prints that audiences could pay to go see.

It guess it makes sense if you remember this was 1957, and there was still only one 70mm process (Todd-AO) at that point, and only two Todd-AO features made, so there couldn't have been many 70mm-equipped theaters out there.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

I spent a good part of yesterday afternoon revisiting RAINTREE COUNTY after originally seeing it for the first time almost two-three years prior.

Overall, I really like the film. However, it's riddled with oddities that border on the ridiculous that prevents the film from being (what I feel) the classic it could have become.

First off, I am amazed at the hot-button topics that made it into a 1957 film including drunken pregnancy, adultery and mental illness. For today's standards, the party scene where a guest dons fireplace ashes on his face to depict colored people would be unacceptable.

What actually happened in "the fire" is still unclear to me as Liz Taylor's character tells multiple versions and the final reveal in a bedroom scene just goes on and on and on and honestly, I was losing interest listening to Liz Taylor drone on about it.

I actually like the second part of the film (post intermission) better than the first. The civil war scenes remind me of a scaled down Gone With The Wind. The entire segment with DeForest Kelley is very good. I loved the exchange between Flash (who had been shot and is dying) and the confederate soldier in the bushes.

So, while watching, I am also Googling some stuff about the film and I find out this was the project Montgomery Cliff was working on when he had his car accident. That accounts for what I felt was a drastic difference in his facial appearance in the second act. Even though he had a beard, he really looked as if he had aged. His face looks different. I am not certain what scenes actually were filmed with his reconstructed face.

Also come to find out that Liz Taylor was involved with Mike Todd and it led to a lot of erratic behavior on the set.

RAINTREE COUNTY is a beautiful film to watch, but it has a rather complicated story complete with the destruction of a collection of dolls. It was nice to see that Taylor received an Academy Award nomination for her performance. I do hope this film sees the light of day on Blu-ray. My personal opinion is that we will, given the amount of urging that has already been personally given to George Feltenstein. It may be a film whose restoration is further down on their list, but I think Warner will eventually get to it.

 

[Andrew Budgell]

My personal opinion is that we will, given the amount of urging that has already been personally given to George Feltenstein. It may be a film whose restoration is further down on their list, but I think Warner will eventually get to it.

Thanks for sharing your impressions, Ron! It's been a few years since I've last seen Raintree in full and am planning to revisit it during my time off over Christmas, although I'm debating holding off until the 65th anniversary of its premiere next fall. I share your optimism that we will see it released on Blu-ray one day. George Feltenstein did say on one of the final WAC Podcasts that it's a challenge he'd like to solve, which is encouraging. I live in hope!

 

[Vern Dias]

What actually happened in "the fire" is still unclear to me as Liz Taylor's character tells multiple versions and the final reveal in a bedroom scene just goes on and on and on and honestly, I was losing interest listening to Liz Taylor drone on about it.

Actually you kinda have to read between the lines:
My take is that her father was "sleeping" with Susanna's nanny and her emotionally unstable mother found out about it. There were gunshots, presumably the mother shooting both of them in bed, and then a fire was set. The key lines in the movie (to me) are where a comment was made that the two bodies in the bedroom were burned beyond recognition and another comment that was made that no one was sure who was actually in which grave.

 

[OliverK]

Yes, I meant 70mm prints that audiences could pay to go see.

It guess it makes sense if you remember this was 1957, and there was still only one 70mm process (Todd-AO) at that point, and only two Todd-AO features made, so there couldn't have been many 70mm-equipped theaters out there.

Apparently it was a similar situation with Fall of the Roman Empire.

It was shot in Ultra Panavision but by the time it was released there were very few theaters around that could still show Ultra Panavision in full width as Mutiny on the Bounty had been the last film that was exhibited that way.

So it was only shown in flat prints that cut off 20% of the original cinematography, something that MGM had already anticipated by the way when making plans for the MGM Camera 65 format.

 

[RolandL]

I spent a good part of yesterday afternoon revisiting RAINTREE COUNTY after originally seeing it for the first time almost two-three years prior.

Overall, I really like the film. However, it's riddled with oddities that border on the ridiculous that prevents the film from being (what I feel) the classic it could have become.

First off, I am amazed at the hot-button topics that made it into a 1957 film including drunken pregnancy, adultery and mental illness. For today's standards, the party scene where a guest dons fireplace ashes on his face to depict colored people would be unacceptable.

What actually happened in "the fire" is still unclear to me as Liz Taylor's character tells multiple versions and the final reveal in a bedroom scene just goes on and on and on and honestly, I was losing interest listening to Liz Taylor drone on about it.

I actually like the second part of the film (post intermission) better than the first. The civil war scenes remind me of a scaled down Gone With The Wind. The entire segment with DeForest Kelley is very good. I loved the exchange between Flash (who had been shot and is dying) and the confederate soldier in the bushes.

So, while watching, I am also Googling some stuff about the film and I find out this was the project Montgomery Cliff was working on when he had his car accident. That accounts for what I felt was a drastic difference in his facial appearance in the second act. Even though he had a beard, he really looked as if he had aged. His face looks different. I am not certain what scenes actually were filmed with his reconstructed face.

Also come to find out that Liz Taylor was involved with Mike Todd and it led to a lot of erratic behavior on the set.

RAINTREE COUNTY is a beautiful film to watch, but it has a rather complicated story complete with the destruction of a collection of dolls. It was nice to see that Taylor received an Academy Award nomination for her performance. I do hope this film sees the light of day on Blu-ray. My personal opinion is that we will, given the amount of urging that has already been personally given to George Feltenstein. It may be a film whose restoration is further down on their list, but I think Warner will eventually get to it.

I'm assuming the version you watched was from a TCM broadcast. That version is about 166 minutes. The roadshow version is 188 minutes. About 7 minutes was for the overture and intermission music. The rest is listed below.

-Nell and Garwood after graduation - 40 seconds
-Swamp 58 seconds
-Professor and John in cornfield 71 seconds
-John and Father illegitimacy discussion 1 minute, 53 seconds
-John, Bobby Drake and slave 2 minutes, 16 seconds
-John , Niles unfulfilled ambition 1 minute, 46 seconds [key scene]
-John going to homestead and Susanna in labor 55 seconds [the lead in uses an alternate take as well]
-John's Search in Indianapolis, visit to Garwood, photographer and Decision to enlist 4 minutes, 34 seconds
-Susanna's Decision and Search for the doll 35 seconds

Also the TCM broadcast is cropped - see below.

TCM

Original

 

[RolandL]

 

[RolandL]

 

[Brent Reid]

For today's standards, the party scene where a guest dons fireplace ashes on his face to depict colored people would be unacceptable.

As is the use of the phrase "colored people".