1. Sign-up to become a member, and most of the ads you see will disappear. It only takes 30 seconds to sign up, so join the discussion today!
    Dismiss Notice

RAINTREE COUNTY on Blu?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Andrew Budgell, Feb 17, 2011.

Tags:
  1. Matt Hough

    Matt Hough Director
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    21,523
    Likes Received:
    11,052
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    Real Name:
    Matt Hough
    Yes, I was very happy to get it again (I watched about ten minutes of it), and it has stereo, too, so that makes it doubly worth having.
     
    Andrew Budgell likes this.
  2. battlebeast

    battlebeast Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,956
    Likes Received:
    1,430
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Location:
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Real Name:
    Warren
    I for got to record it! :(:(
     
  3. RolandL

    RolandL Producer

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    5,018
    Likes Received:
    2,341
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Cromwell, CT
    Real Name:
    Roland Lataille
    It will be on again.
     
    battlebeast likes this.
  4. RolandL

    RolandL Producer

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    5,018
    Likes Received:
    2,341
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Cromwell, CT
    Real Name:
    Roland Lataille
    This was many years ago, but I asked WB on Facebook what would it take to get this released on Blu-ray. There response was they wanted to release the complete roadshow version but they were looking for better elements. Of course things change so there might be other reasons now. Being 70mm it would be expensive.
     
    Josh Steinberg likes this.
  5. ptb2017fr

    ptb2017fr Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2017
    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    122
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Location:
    South of France
    Real Name:
    Paul Bale
    70mm shot movies like 55 Days at Peking and Circus World have had superb restorations done recently by Pinewood in the UK. A pity they haven't done the other Bronson epics El Cid and Fall of the Roman Empire, and of course many of the other 70mm epics like Raintree County still begging for a proper restoration. Why do they think a John Wayne circus set movie would be more commercial than and Elizabeth Taylor American Civil War set epic?
     
  6. Worth

    Worth Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2009
    Messages:
    3,436
    Likes Received:
    2,486
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    Nick Dobbs
    Because almost nothing pre-80s sells more than a couple of thousand copies. If they're going to do a restoration, it will be mostly for archival purposes, along with theatrical bookings and streaming and television sales. It certainly won't be for home video at this point.
     
    Josh Steinberg likes this.
  7. richardburton84

    richardburton84 Second Unit

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    360
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Real Name:
    Jack
    I think it’s precisely because Circus World features John Wayne that they thought restoring it would be more commercial as he’s still relatively popular, then again, MGM still isn’t budging on restoring The Alamo so who knows. I too hope Pinewood allows restorations of El Cid and Fall of the Roman Empire at some point since they apparently don’t have the necessary equipment to restore the 65mm negative for Fall (and since El Cid is one of Scorsese’s favorites, perhaps the Film Foundation could chip in).
     
  8. RolandL

    RolandL Producer

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    5,018
    Likes Received:
    2,341
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Cromwell, CT
    Real Name:
    Roland Lataille
    Raintree County, Fall of the Roman Empire and The Hallelujah Trail are the only MGM Camera 65/Ultra Panavision titles that have not been released on Blu-ray in the full 2.76:1 aspect ratio.
     
    DP 70 likes this.
  9. Message #1489 of 1539 Feb 11, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
    DVBRD

    DVBRD Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2011
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    90
    Trophy Points:
    10
    Real Name:
    Andy
    Yeah, TCM plays this movie at least twice a year, so you have plenty of chances to see it.

    10 years ago, there was a YouTube video that compared the "roadshow" cut to the "general release" version. Sadly, that video is no longer there. But it was pretty informative. I still think that WB should just release the roadshow cut as is (in its 4:3 SD glory) as a special feature alongside an HD copy of the existing film. At least they'll have a well-thought-out excuse to release it as such. (Unlike the 2006 DVD of the Star Wars original trilogy which basically amounted to George Lucas saying, "You fans won't shut up about the original cuts, so I dug up some old dated masters and slapped them on a disc. Happy now?")
     
  10. Mark B

    Mark B Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2003
    Messages:
    800
    Likes Received:
    97
    Trophy Points:
    610
    Location:
    Saranac Lake, NY
    Real Name:
    Mark
    That was my YouTube video and it was violated and removed.
     
  11. Message #1491 of 1539 Feb 11, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
    Allansfirebird

    Allansfirebird Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2012
    Messages:
    534
    Likes Received:
    659
    Trophy Points:
    610
    Real Name:
    Sean
    If you've got a burning desire to see Raintree - TCM has it up on their WatchTCM site and on the mobile app. They list the runtime as 187 minutes, but the actual video is 167 minutes.

    Before Filmstruck died, they had the theatrical and extended roadshow versions of Raintree available to stream. The latter cut looked just this side of dreary, but it was in widescreen.
     
  12. DVBRD

    DVBRD Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2011
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    90
    Trophy Points:
    10
    Real Name:
    Andy
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/style/1986/06/29/gone-with-the-video/9ddd8cc9-0a6d-449a-8154-958e34e73992/

    Here's an article from 1986 about films that were at the time unavailable in their original forms on video. It shows how much progress has been made in the years since; It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World and Spartacus have since been restored, and films such as South Pacific, Oliver!, and The Ten Commandments have reinstated their original overtures/entr'acte/exit music on video. There have also been ways to make video masters directly from 70mm prints, and this was MGM's excuse as to why they decided not to restore Raintree County in 1986. They also said the restoration would have cost $50,000. Now, of course, depending on how the elements have fared in the past 30+ years, it would be a hell of a lot more.

    Johnny Green (who composed the score) was also interviewed about the situation and called it "cinematic ruthless mayhem." He also pushed to have the footage restored, to no avail.
     
    Tony Bensley, ahollis, Mark B and 2 others like this.
  13. Andrew Budgell

    Andrew Budgell Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Messages:
    1,822
    Likes Received:
    1,611
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Real Name:
    Andy Budgell
    Hi Andy, thank you for posting this article. I've never come across it before. It's an interesting window into bring the film to VHS for the first time, as well as classic films in general in the early days of the format. Raintree has certainly had an interesting history on home video.
     
  14. mark brown

    mark brown Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    110
    What is the status of any Pinewood 70mm restorations in the future?
     
  15. Ed Lachmann

    Ed Lachmann Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,266
    Likes Received:
    1,291
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Real Name:
    Edmund Lachmann
    And it would be too financially challenging to burn a run or so of this hypothetical restored archival print, already digitally scanned for streaming sales, to blu-ray disc for fans of the film to purchase? I could understand this with the likes of From Hell it Came but not with Raintree County.
     
    Nick*Z likes this.
  16. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    18,023
    Likes Received:
    22,015
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Josh Steinberg
    In theory, no, but then you run up against Warner Archive’s internal policy of perfection or nothing at all. Between costs of disc mastering and limited sales potential, they get one bite at the apple now and they know it.

    For them, the current HD master of the general release version is not considered “perfection” - “perfection” would be a fully restored version of the original roadshow presentation. That’s what they’re holding out for. And right now, the costs do that kind of restoration work is too high to be recouped in the current market. And so, they wait. The cost of digital film restoration decreases as computer processing power increases and the cost of data storage goes down.

    But with the limited resources the Warner Archive department has at its disposal, putting out a disc now means essentially giving up on doing anything better.

    And the folks there have chosen a business model and philosophy that favors waiting for the right opportunity to do something perfect over putting out something sooner that is more practical and would satisfy most people, because it all but eliminates the opportunity to do it again. Today’s physical media market does not support double dips for all but the most popular titles.

    With Warner, it’s rarely a question of whether something is technically possible; it’s always a question of how something aligns with their internal priorities.
     
    DVBRD likes this.
  17. RolandL

    RolandL Producer

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    5,018
    Likes Received:
    2,341
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Cromwell, CT
    Real Name:
    Roland Lataille
    The only way to get the full 188 minute version is on VHS tape.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Robin9

    Robin9 Producer

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    5,275
    Likes Received:
    3,277
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Robin
    . . . but I don't have a VHS video recorder! :)
     
  19. OliverK

    OliverK Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2000
    Messages:
    4,141
    Likes Received:
    2,068
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    The cover gives a good impression of the level of detail that can be expected from the VHS tape.
     
    willyTass likes this.
  20. OliverK

    OliverK Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2000
    Messages:
    4,141
    Likes Received:
    2,068
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    About Pinewood and the Bronston movies:

    There seems to be a misconception that Pinewood has a say in what gets done with the Bronston movies which is inaccurate as they hold neither the rights nor the negatives. The short version is that they were "only" contracted to work on two of them with luckily much superior results compared to the two Bronston's that were handled with subpar results at the Weinstein Company.

    It is due to the sales all over the world of Blu-rays derived from the Weinstein masters that the current rights holders do not see a financial justification to revisit El Cid and certainly not Fall that could not be handled at Pinewood.

    From what I gathered El Cid would probably be done at Pinewood with a 4k scan of the OCN so we would be in for a treat, hopefully soon. If I had to guess we will have to wait longer for Fall due to it being shot in 65mm and also the less popular movie.

    As for Circus World getting such a nice treatment at a time when all the superior titles were either released in subpar quality or not at all this was indeed due to John Wayne starring in it which made funding available that would not have been there with another lead actor.
     

Share This Page