R.I.P. for Disney 2-D Animation?

Discussion in 'Movies' started by Dick, Aug 18, 2003.

  1. Dick

    Dick Lead Actor
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  2. Chris

    Chris Lead Actor

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    In every sense of the word, it is sad.
     
  3. Joseph Bolus

    Joseph Bolus Cinematographer

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    I'm afraid that I don't quite understand the logic here.

    Disney is very aware that their 2-D hand drawn animated classics are still very marketable by virtue of the fact that their Platinum Collection titles are currently made up exclusively of such fare.

    They also cannot be blind to the fact that Dinosaur, their first in-house 3-D animation effort, didn't do anywhere near the "numbers" they were expecting at the box office.

    There's not much doubt that Atlantis and Treasure Island would have fared much better at the box office as 3-D creations. This is not due to a lack of talent by the 2-D animators but simply due to the fact that those stories had more mature themes and were aimed, initially, at the teenage audience. Neither film is really a "family" film, per se'. Conversely, Dinosaur, with its talking animals, was obviously aimed at a pre-teen audience and should have been traditionally animated with CGI enhancements.

    In today's market there is still a demand for 2-D animation (Lilo and Stitch is a good example), but the need is also there for 3-D. Rather than curtailing one style of animation in favor of another, Disney needs to expand into 3-D while keeping the bulk of their 2-D animation department intact. They then need to create innovative family-oriented projects for the 2-D department; and adventurous teen-oriented "sense-of-wonder" projects for the 3-D department. To do otherwise is to invite disaster.
     
  4. Chris

    Chris Lead Actor

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    Where the heck is Don Bluth now? I know most of his stuff turned into schlock, but oh, I remember when you had "American Tale" "Land Before Time (original)" "Secret of NIMH"
     
  5. Joseph Bolus

    Joseph Bolus Cinematographer

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    Don Bluth hand a hand in the Fox Titan A.E. disaster. (Which, I, personally, greatly enjoyed for the innovative way the CGI was blended into the animation.)

    The bottom line is that these studios need to stop trying to cater to the Japanese Anime' crowd with traditional 2-D animation. It's just not going to fly in this country.

    "Anime' style" stories here need to be 3-D animated. However, I still firmly believe that traditional "family" movies can still be created, with good effect, via 2-D animation with CGI enhancement. As long as the story is creative.

    Finding Nemo, for example, could have succeeded just about as well, IMO, if it had been 2-D animated. The story was great; the visuals were simply the icing on the cake.

    That's the real magic of Pixar: All of their projects, so far, have started with great narrative stories. Why Disney can't figure this out is difficult to comprehend.
     
  6. James~P

    James~P Stunt Coordinator

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    i saw this coming...


    compare the original Snow White animations to.. Treasure Planet..


    personally, i find thier original work to be far more artistic, and less "cut-paper" looking.



    quite frankly i still dont think they should can the entire 2D animation division.

    but i'm not a disney fan anyway
     
  7. Scott Thomas

    Scott Thomas Second Unit

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    I guess there's no chance of a Kingdom Hearts movie
     
  8. TheLongshot

    TheLongshot Producer

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  9. Bill Moore

    Bill Moore Auditioning

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    How sad.

    I'm a big Disney fan, and have been since childhood. Walt Disney was a visionary, a creator who developed an industry and accumulated a artistic staff that is arguably unrivaled.

    And all that accumulated creative genius of 50+ years is squandered; let to dribble away...

    How sad.

    B
     
  10. Joseph Bolus

    Joseph Bolus Cinematographer

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  11. Scott Weinberg

    Scott Weinberg Lead Actor

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    So "traditional animation" will succumb to a forced hibernation (not at all unlike the big Movie Musical was forced to do for quite some time) and several years later, someone creative will come along and jump-start the whole genre again.

    Sad to see that Disney would kill traditional animation and then announce that they're burying it.

    That would be like McDonald's discontinuing cheeseburgers.
     
  12. Chuck Mayer

    Chuck Mayer Lead Actor

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    Scott is correct. It'll be hibernation 'til someone (heck, maybe even Pixar) does one the way Disney USED to and makes a killing.

    It's an artform, a special tool used to make special movies. I have difficulty containing my ire for Eisner. The lessons he chooses to acknowledge are the wrong ones, chosen to fit his "business model". Losing the one thing that made Disney what it is...is simply another nail in the coffin.

    I eagerly await the return of traditional animation. I hope the wealth of knowledge accumulated in almost 70 years of brilliance is not lost because of some bean counter MBA's genius ideas.

    Ironic that The Lion King will be one of the top-selling DVD's of the year (and Sleeping Beauty right behind), as it's proclaimed dead.

    It is heart-breaking.

    Take care,
    Chuck
     
  13. Seth Paxton

    Seth Paxton Lead Actor

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  14. Seth Paxton

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    BTW, this also happens even as shows like Simpsons, King of the Hill and South Park dominate on TV. I recall that South Park film doing alright.

    Now I know that SP isn't aimed at kids, but certainly kids are watching Simpsons and Sponge Bob, right?

    So the defense is that this has everything to do with them being on television and nothing to do with great writing?
     
  15. Tony-B

    Tony-B Producer

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    2D isn't totally dead. Just look to Japan for all of your 2D animation needs! [​IMG]
     
  16. Patrick McCart

    Patrick McCart Lead Actor

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    Disney should spend the next 3 years re-releasing some of their classics.

    Snow White, Fantasia, Dumbo, Lady and the Tramp, and 101 Dalmations would all enjoy great box office returns. Perhaps they can also have some compilation revues of the shorts. An 80-minute show of Mickey Mouse would be interesting...same thing for some of the Goofy and Donald cartoons.

    While they're at it, a 50 yr. anniv release of 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea in 2004 would be fantastic.
     
  17. Jason Seaver

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  18. Randy Tennison

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    I think there is a lot of knee jerking going on. Traditional pencil to paper animation may be on the way out, but that's just a change in the method. Just as the Xerox process changed the look of animation by no longer having the animation hand traced to the cels. Just as computer coloring eliminated the ink and paint department (Little Mermaid was the last hand colored feature).

    So, now, they are removing the animation drawing tables in favor of computer work stations. It is simply the next step. And to say that Walt Disney would not approve, or that this somehow minimizes his accomplishments, is to not understand what drove the man. He was a technical innovator, always pushing his people to seek ways to make the animated drawings more lifelike. Disney Studios introduced sound to cartoons, color to cartoons, the multiplane camera, the animated feature, the xerox process, cgi in animation, etc.

    This is what Disney does. They innovate. They progress. Before we decry the decline of the entire animation industry, let's see what happens in the future. To expect things to remain the same forever is not reasonable. Disney has stumbled lately, to be certain. But they will get back on the right track, and will continue to innovate and inspire.
     
  19. TheLongshot

    TheLongshot Producer

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    Randy,

    I don't think you quite get what we are talking about. 2D and 3D animation are completely different stylewise. It is abandoning one style for another because some people think it is "better". It isn't better or worse, just different.

    Kinda sad we are going into the doldrums again, and we don't even have a Don Bluth plugging away this time. To be honest, things look grim for 2D animation fans in this country. [​IMG]

    Jason
     
  20. Ray Chuang

    Ray Chuang Screenwriter

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    In my personal and humble opinion, [​IMG] what Disney really needs to do is to start creating animated features that won't be afraid of a PG-13 rating.

    If necessary, create the new release label Touchstone Animation for Walt Disney Feature Animation (WDFA) so WDFA can release movies intended for the teenage and older audiences.

    Imagine if WDFA could have done Atlantis: the Lost Empire as a PG-13 rated film; they could brought out Helga Sinclair's femme fatale personality more clearly, and the interaction between Milo and Kida could have been a bit more romantic and realistic. Also, the action could have been more exciting, too.
     

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