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Quick review on 1080i scaling Liteon LVD2001 DVD Player

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by Marc Carra, Sep 29, 2003.

  1. Jonny K

    Jonny K Second Unit

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    Ok, I ordered one. After tax and shipping I paid $225.00 Canadian.


    Jonny K. [​IMG]
     
  2. JohnSterling

    JohnSterling Stunt Coordinator

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    I tried the resolution testing with my DVE disc. Switched back and forth between 480p and 1080i going into the HDTV input on the tv set.

    The images looked basically the same...but I don't know how to read/interpret the screens...so I can't give any real useful feedback. I tried googling around a bit last night on the correct way to interpret the screen results...but no luck. (Didn't try real hard though).

    What I found really interested was I also ran the test on my JVC n50BK that's running 480p signal into the DVD input on the set. The results were ***VERY*** different than the Liteon player...but since I don't really know what I'm looking at, I couldn't tell you if one was better than the other. Just different.

    Cheers.
     
  3. Marc Carra

    Marc Carra Supporting Actor

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    I really couldn't care how test patterns look. If the player can provide me with a film-like image, that's all that matters to me. And on my system, it looks great.

    Marc.
     
  4. Dalton

    Dalton Screenwriter

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    Hi,
    Can anyone send me the instructions on how to burn the firmware? It is easy for my Philips 963 but the instructions on the Liteon site aren't very helpful. I want to put the 229 firmware on. I have the 223 now and want to see the video improvement of the 229 firmware.

    Thanks,
    Dalton
     
  5. mctague

    mctague Stunt Coordinator

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    Anyone with audio popping sucessfully return the unit & receive one that doesn't pop?

    Also, isn't a firmware update due real-soon-now?

    tia
     
  6. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    A firmware update disc must be made using the program Nero to burn a specific type of ISO image file.
    And no one can't use the built-in burning program in Windows XP or Easy CD creator to make the CD.

    There is a downloadable demo 30 day version of Nero available that will do the job. Or one can grab a pretty cheap OEM version HERE
     
  7. Dalton

    Dalton Screenwriter

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    I have used Nero many times. What i want to know is the burning procedure. Do i just burn the image file onto a disc? The LiteOn site does not give much help in this regard.

    Thanks,
    Dalton
     
  8. Dan Clark

    Dan Clark Stunt Coordinator

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  9. Andrew Pratt

    Andrew Pratt Producer

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    Well my Liteon arrived today and I've been playing with it this afternoon on my Studio Experience 1HD projector. Honestly at first I was really excited about trying it given the early hype then I started reading conflicting reports and people saying the differences were subtle so I lowered my expectations and more or less was just open to seeing what the differences were. With that in mind I started playing with the Liteon just before supper tonight. The first thing I did was flash the firmware to the latest version and connect it where my Denon 1600 used to sit (component connection to my Rotel 1098 and an optical cable) I then fired up Avia for a look at the resolution patterns at 480P, 720P and 1080i. After that it was onto some demo clips of Shrek and Gladiator. As others have mentioned before the 720P option looks really soft and isn't aa mode I'd recomend at all. So that leaves us with 480P and 1080i which to me look very similar but both my cousin and I both felt the 480P option looked a little sharper which was very disapointing. So basically for me it didn't impress me enough for it to dethrone my trusty Denon 1600 machine esp. since I also really like the Denon as both a CD and DVD-A player so I'm going to return the Liteon (or sell it to a local friend to use with his toshiba RPTV that needs a 1080i signal to squeeze)
     
  10. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    Andrew

    The Studio Experience 1HD projector doesn't support 'native' HD resolution, it runs at 1/4th HD resolution. So when feeding the 1HD with a signal from the the LiteOn in the 1080i mode, the signal is being upscaled by the player, then downscaled by the projector. As a result it's probably not the just the LiteOn that's causing the soft image. More than likely it's the total of all the processing (upscaling/downscaling) being done to the signal.

    So it's not surprising that in your situation you find the Denon the equal of LiteOn. But that doesn't mean for other situations/projectors, that the LiteOn isn't a good choice.

    Also remember that using any video switcher will have a negative impact on 1080i performance.
     
  11. Andrew Pratt

    Andrew Pratt Producer

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    True enough thomas but its interesting to note that people that are feeding the 1/4HD projectors real HD report that the image looks very good.
     
  12. ChadLB

    ChadLB Screenwriter

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    Andrew,
    I am going to test that hopefully soon with my Z1 at my local Hi Fi shop. I don't have HD tv but they have it there so I can bring it in and hook it up to see if the pic is actually that good.
     
  13. Brajesh Upadhyay

    Brajesh Upadhyay Supporting Actor

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    Just letting people on the fence know, this unit is $109.99 @ PCClub after a $30 rebate this weekend. Have a look.
     
  14. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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  15. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    With regard to resolution test patterns, I ran through a bunch last night and was thoroughly disappointed by the results. Horizontal resolution was about 425 TV lines (max is 540).

    That is until I realised that I had the player set to 16:9 and the TV in FULL mode. So, what the player is doing in this case is squeezing the video horizontally so that the 4:3 image will be proper proportioned. Otherwise, the image would be stretched the width of the screen.

    So, I set the 2001 to 4:3 P&S and the TV to 4:3 Natural and checked again. Now it was displaying 540 lines. The player does not have a horizontal resolution issue that I can see.
     
  16. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    Mr. Bob, I checked colour bars with the 2001 in 1080i mode and had to make zero adjustments for colour and tint.

    Also, the black level of this player is obviously set to 7.5 IRE. Lowering the player's Brightness setting to -2 corrected this.
     
  17. Robert P. Jones

    Robert P. Jones Second Unit

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    I checked the color decoder between 480p and 1080i and regrettably, it was much more linear on 480p. On 1080i there is a major drop in green, tho blue stayed basically the same on both color and tint.

    It does blacker than black beautifully, tho, in all modes, both 480 and 1080/720. Thus promising to always deliver the nth degree of detail available, in any and all dark areas. How does that translate to numbers, JohnnyG?

    720p is mulchy. I found the same with Comcast HD.

    But 1080i still rocks. It has a "definite" pic, vs. the "tentative" pic of the 480p.


    Here's some more detail, from another thread, one I started at the SPot:

    OK, I did some tests. Don't have time to go into it too much right now, but here's a bit of it:

    Res tests were not better in either mode, really. But the AVIA menu titles looked better in 480p. These are frozen images, tho, and moving images work differently. I saw no noticeable differences between the 2 using the Snell and Wilcox res/moire patterns on VE.

    If I had DVE, maybe I could check further, but since the LO is taking 480i from DVD and synthesizing the 1080i pic, using DVE would not really help, because this is not a 1080p- or 1080i-reading device.

    However, the picture itself looks better in 1080i. I definitely prefer it over 480p, both from the LO and from my RP56.

    720p is very mulchy with lots of ringing, and not attractive in the least, even thru my 720p native capable year 2000 Panny 65". Could be that the LO's electronics are just not rated for 45Khz operation. 1080i only requires up to 33K max, and since this is a component-only unit, 31K in this case. That's probably all this unit was designed to do.

    Nearest I can come to why I like the 1080i pic better is that the 1080i is a very "definite" picture, while the 480p is a very "tentative" picture. The definite pic was much closer to film watching than the tentative pic. Neither is true HD, and to compare either of those 2 with true HD would not be apples to apples.

    The 480p was ideal in its colorations, and matched my settings for 480p from my RP56 perfectly, which is what I used to calibrate my RPTV.

    However, for the 1080i section I found the Saturation inside the LO had to be set at +1 and the TV's tint set halfway to the endpoint of pink on Tint - minus 15 clicks from centerpoint of 31, out of the 63 total allowed - to achieve the roughly the same colorations as the calibrated pic I've been watching ever since I got the 56 last year, including optimized fleshtones. The RP56 patterns automatically covered optimized fleshtones on the TV, when all relevant patterns were played on the RP56 for the calibration. Plus optimized color decoder - not absolutely perfect, like you can get with the 4 color decoder registers on the Hitachi and the older Mits's - but still absoulutely superb. On the LO, I had to do the above to prioritize optimizing the fleshtones on the LO, which was not necessary on the RP56 pic. Color decoder results below.

    Sure wish there was a Tint setting in the LO's service menu like there is Saturation!

    The brightness on the LO on 480p was noticeably down from normal, and had to be set internally to +1 if I were to want to be using 480p, to match up to calibration settings on the RPTV. However, the 1080i setting was perfect at nullpoint, so I left it alone, as I prefer the 1080i.

    Color decoder was different, tho, as found by others already. More linear on the 480p. But not so much as to make me want to watch it over the 1080i, which I still consider the better picture.

    Using filters - sorry, not going to open it up just to close off the individual colors - on 480p I found:

    R: -5
    G: -15
    B: -15

    On 1080i I found:

    R: -20
    G: -25
    B: -15

    On strictly blue with the blue isolation - in this case blue filter - test, I was not real surprised to not be seeing much difference in the color/tint settings between the 2.

    But the color decoding itself definitely changed, accounting for why the color and tint DO have to be altered when in 1080i, to maintain correct fleshtones. The color saturation cranked up - doable inside the LO - and the Tint cranked away from green and towards the pink/purple, doable only on the TV.

    Using those settings, the 1080i images from Spiderman were sensational, on fleshtones. The "definite"-ness of the structure was especially effective in the upside-down kissing in the rain scene - possibly better known as the Kirsten Dunst personal best proxy entry, into the very next available wet T-shirt contest - DEFINITELY suitable for framing...

    Mine has not been updated yet. It is still version 2.23.


    Mr Bob
     
  18. david*mt

    david*mt Second Unit

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    Is the PC Club rebate only good this weekend? It says 11/1 to 11/16.
     
  19. david*mt

    david*mt Second Unit

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    .
     
  20. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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