Quick question/help - Pionner DV-563A, DV-45A, Denon 2200

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by Taya, Dec 18, 2003.

  1. Taya

    Taya Extra

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    To make long story short. I am interested in high quality picture (although still using traditional 50" RPTV). SACD, DVD-A important but not critical. My system contains Sony TA-P9000ES dedicate pre for the sound and TA-E9000ES for the video.

    I read so many great posts about the different players, It seems that the DV-563A is not perfect but is a good value...
    1. How is the DV-45A compared with the DV-563A video quality wise?
    2. Is going up to the Denon 2200 would further improve that video (given that I already read here the Denon is superior on the sound quality)...

    My rest of the system is:
    Parasound AT2505 and speakers are B&W CDM-9NT/1NT/CNT series...
     
  2. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    Secrets rated it about a 60, versus 35 or so for the 45A. Having said that, some of things that the 45a scores poorly on, you may or may not see.

    I have a 45a, but I use if for audio only. With DVD-A and SACD, its sounds fabulous. I have a 1600 for video purposes (scored 91 at Secrets, a three way tie for the best ever score, IIRC).

    Back to audio, the 563 has poor bass management (the DVD-A crossover is 200 hz; way too high). The 45a BM is also not perfect. I use an ICBM with my 45a. With MC Hi-Rez titles, its sonic nirvana in my room with my ears.

    The 2200 has the potential to be your best choice, but I have not yet seen a Secrets test which I consider THE source for video evaluations, nor have I read any audio reviews. As such, its a bit of an unknown quantity at the moment.

    BGL
     
  3. Taya

    Taya Extra

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    Brian,

    Thanks for the info, I forgot to mention that although sound is not a critical factor I would still like to enjoy the SACD and FDVD-A formats and very unlikely that I will add the ICBM...

    Agree, 200Hz for cut of is way too high... do the pionners send bass info also of the peakers set to large?
     
  4. Ed Moxley

    Ed Moxley Cinematographer

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    I have the Pioneer 563A, and I love it. I keep hearing how there's no bass management.............but I get more than enough bass from the dvd-a and the sacd music. I have all my speakers set to small, so the LFE goes to subwoofer. I listened to an sacd earlier and the bass was thumping........

    It also has a great picture. I don't use progressive scan, but it's there if you need it. It does not have the chroma bug either. It just cannot be beat for the price. Normally sells for $179 at Best Buy. Being this close to Christmas, it may be on sale.......... Good luck with whatever you buy!

    Merry Christmas!
     
  5. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    Not sure what you mean. Any speaker set to large SHOULD keep whatever content was present; nothing should be sent to the sub.

    When you ask about Pioneers, I only own the 45A which does have a quirk with certain Chesky 4.0 titles where it does NOT do any BM. It also does NOT redirect bass from the .1 to the mains in cases where you do not have a sub.

    I don't know about the 563a. S&V does say that its BM works correctly, save for the crossover issue.

    There may also be issues if you have the center speaker set to small, with large mains (I think I read about that in a 563 thread).

    The entire topic of BM can get pretty hairy, since most players do at least some things wrong, depending on format, and on top of that, not all users have all small mains + sub.

    I can certainly see why some that spent $178 for a player would think its nuts to spent another $250 for an ICBM, but to get BM 100% right for all formats, its pretty much the only game in town unless you have all large speakers + sub and don't need BM.

    I personally was never fully satisfied with the sound of my 45A on ALL formats until I bit the bullet and bought the ICBM. But, if you are happy with what you are currently hearing, then that is the bottom line.

    BGL
     
  6. Paul_Ptaaty

    Paul_Ptaaty Stunt Coordinator

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    If I had to guess, the Denon 2200 should score around 90. It all depends if they messed something up along the way, but the 2900 did very well, and it appears the 2200 has minimized the alt-flag problem (maybe implemented a chroma filter).

    Out of those choices the 2200 should have the best picture and the BM is very good, like the 2900 with a +10dB bass boost option, as far as I know can send bass to mains+sub or just sub (filter on/off setting), works great on my 2900. Also with the 8mb buffer should have zero layer change pause (very nice). Cost is about 2X the 563a though...

    BTW, I have the 2900, and love it, but almost went with the 2200 but wanted the higher level of audio performance of the 2900 (main reason for my upgrade was audio)
     
  7. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    The 2200 is a pretty darn good all around player, and I am quite happy with it. DVD-A reproduction is excellent, and SACD is good. The 2900 is better with SACD, I have not heard DVD-A on it though.

    In terms of video, it is quite similar to the 2900 (same SiI504 deinterlacer). I can tell you there is NO visible layer change, even on "problem" discs, this thing is fast.


    It was a 3-way tie because all 3 of these players were essentially the same core gear with different packaging and options.
     
  8. Taya

    Taya Extra

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    Thanks for the feedback guys. I am lucky enough to have all players down the road here so will be able to start testing, I am not the type like to take a player and bring back the next day...hence my questions. I would have wished to have all speakers set to large and have LFE sent to the Sub but it seems this is not the case...
    Based on all the responses I wonder, how much of difference in picture quality there is between the players... for a picture quality only, is that worth the price difference?

    Same here, Happy Holidays to you all!
     
  9. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    Actually, pretty much all players will get that right. Its all large/no sub that many screw up.

    BGL
     
  10. Mike Capulli

    Mike Capulli Stunt Coordinator

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    How much of a difference is the 2200 from the 2900 as far as SA-CDs? Im looking for a universal player because im interested in the new audio formats and of course im in need of a great progressive picture over the HD931 I returned. Is it worth the extra 400 bucks for SA-CD? 600 for the 2200 is already a stretch for me.

    Thanks
     
  11. Ernest Yee

    Ernest Yee Supporting Actor

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    Hey I'm considering the 563A or a Denon(not sure which one) - would it make any difference in video performance on my Sony Wega since I'm not using any progressive scan feature? Or would it make more sense to even go lower?
     
  12. Mike Capulli

    Mike Capulli Stunt Coordinator

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    Your wega doesnt do progressive? Is it an older SD set? If you plan on upgrading your TV anytime soon and want the capabilities of DVD-A / SA-CD then Id go for it.

    I figure that If I buy a great universal player now, It will probably be the last DVD player Ill ever buy until HD-DVD.
     
  13. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    Inerlaced looked pretty good with my Sony on the 2200. I can't comment on the 563.

    The difference between the 2200 and 2900 with SACD is not night and day, but it was noticable to me. Not worth the difference in price, because I already have an SACD player so I don't use this capability of the 2200 normally.
     
  14. Ernest Yee

    Ernest Yee Supporting Actor

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    Yeah - It's definitely not an HD - I'm constantly upgrading components but I know I would be seriously annoyed w/ the slight out of focusness w/ normal television to go HD right now. When more programming is in HD, I'll make the jump.
     
  15. Ernest Yee

    Ernest Yee Supporting Actor

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    So what's the verdict for an interlaced player? The 563A my best option?
     
  16. Taya

    Taya Extra

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    Happy new year all!
    So I have got the inputs and got the 563A for $162 at the local CC (simply buy on the web and pick up at the store give you 10% off)...
    Anyway, I just wanted to share my initial view of this player.
    1. It is pretty ugly.
    2. The picture quality out of the box was not good but has much improved once I threw in the VE disk and needed to change the TV settings.
    3. THe sound quality is good for me as far as DVD-A, SACD and DVD-V materials.
    I do think that this player is BRIGHT by all means. Sound and Video.
    On the video part, I needed to reduce the TV settings on the brightness by as much as 20steps (from about 50 to 30..)
    On the sound, it also seems to me that this player is a little too bright. I am using the Sony TA-P9000ES pre-amp for 5.1 direct.
    I also think that there is souwhat un-even output level off the speakers, on this machine, especialy from the rear ones.
    I will play around with this a little more to see how it breaks in. have not yet explored the video setting on the DVD it self as provided in the menu.

    All in all, When I compare this DVD to the one it replaced, the Toshiba 2108. I think the picture quality improved by a little bit (smooth), clearer sounds, but as I mentioned I think it is a little too bright... For a 5 years worth of improvements, I can understand why DVD players cost $30 today... It seems that not much improvement made over the past few years on their quality, only their build quality was reduced...

    For now, I am gonna keep the player as I do not see a reason to spend over X2 for not X2 improvement...

    Happy listening and thanks for all the advises!
     

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