Questions for Pioneer DV-45A owners... (1 Viewer)

[Jantzen]

Just had my wife order one up for me for Christmas and had some questions...
FYI - I plan only on using the DV-45A for audio duties...
I noticed there is a "video off" button on the front panel. Does that just stop output going out the video jacks? or does it turn off the video circuitry inside for better audio or something?
Next what are the opinions on this player for standard redbook playback? (good / bad /ok?) I am using a cheap Sony mega-changer now and hope to also gain an improvement in redbook CD playback too.
I plan on using the analog outs vs. the digital for my redbook CD listening... Since I *think* the DAC's in the player are better those in my Sony DTR-DA333ES receiver. (anyone know for sure?) With that said, can I just run cables from the 5.1 out on the player for all music listening (DVD-A, SACD, CD)? Or do I need to also run a pair of cables from the 2-channel jacks to listen to redbook CD's?
Thanks - and sorry for all the questions...

 

[Derek Baker]

Can I just run cables from the 5.1 out on the player for all music listening (DVD-A, SACD, CD)? Or do I need to also run a pair of cables from the 2-channel jacks to listen to redbook CD's?

As far as i know the 5.1 output is fine for all the above. You may want to play around though and see what suits you (I only have the 5.1 outputs set up and it works a charm!).

Hope this helps...

 

[Mike Raub]

I can answer your last question. The 45A will output 2 channel stereo to the 5.1 outputs when playing a regular CD. This is an advantage for me since I can use the analog crossover in my pre/pro to redirect bass to the sub without A/D conversion.

I have a couple of additional questions about the 45A.

1. Is there any way to confirm you have locked on to the high resolution output of a DVD-A disc without turning on the TV? I assume if the panel shows 5.1 output and neither the DD or DTS light is lit, you must have the high rez output, but I'm not certain.

2. If you tell the 45A's setup menu to use the multichannel track of a SACD disc, but try to play a stereo SACD disc (one without a multichannel track), will the SACD stereo track be selected or do you have go into setup again the get the SACD stereo track.

I'm very impressed with both multichannel DVD-A and SACD. Stereo SACD ought to be killed off, though, since I don't many people are going to buy the equipment or discs just to get a slight improvement in stereo. Multichannel is the key to the success of these new formats, IMHO.

MIKE

 

[Jantzen]

Thanks...

One more thing...

When playing redbook CD's via the 5.1 outs are only the L/R out's active or if I have it set to 5 small speakers and sub on will it send a "2.1" signal. In other words is there Bass Management via the 5.1 outs for redbook CD playback?

Thanks again...

I know I'll have this all figured out once I get the player... But I'm trying to get the cables and everything in place before it gets here...

 

[Brian L]

I will try to answer several of these questions.

1. The 5.1 light is on whenever that feature is enabled in the player, so it does not really tell you what is playing (waste of a light IMHO). If playing a DVD-A, you will see that there is a Group Indicator (which I don't think you will see if playing a DVD-V or a RedBook CD).

That said, disc navigation on some titles would be darn near impossible without a display connected. There are titles (DVD-A) with 2CH DVD-A, MC DVD-A, DD, and DTS (on the DVD-V layer). Not sure you could select them without a display.

On the good side, I think the player will select the highest resolution MC output for DVD-A, and the MC output for SACD, IF YOU TELL THE PLAYER TO DO SO IN THE SETUP.

IMHO, I love the 45A, but the user friendliness of the player and SACD and DVD-A in general is not there yet.

2. If MC SACD is selected in set-up, the 45A will attempt to play the MC SACD layer. If there is no MC layer, it will (should, anyway) the stereo layer. It will NOT play the redbook layer unless you set it to do so in the set-up menu.

3. Playing 2CH stuff through the 5.1 should apply BM if you have all speakers small/sub on, so yes, it will be a 2.1 output. That said, the slope of the crossovers is different when playing SACD than DVD or redbook stuff (so says Sound and Vision). No biggy, but they did note this.

BL

 

[Patrick Taylor]

Maybe someone can help me also, it's all about the Bass...

I have the 45a and my 30 day trial is up in one day. I don't know if I am keeping it. It might be overload for my system. I am using it with a Yamaha 5240 Receiver. I have tried using the Yamaha's External Decoder setting for everything but I find I get more Bass from movies by letting the receiver do the bass management. I do have the Sub turned up to 6 in the 45a.

I have tried the speakers set to large and small fronts with no real difference. I have my front speakers, Def. Tech. ProMonitor 200's, set up to the speaker level outputs on my sub, which is a Yamaha SWF320, and also a RCA low level cable to the sub.

I think the 45a is great for DVD-Audio and music (the Sub output is not too overpowering by letting the 45a do the bass management, at least for me). The Yamaha lets me use "Large Fronts" AND a Sub, which is why I get more deep and room filing bass with movies if I use the Digital output of the 45a. The Yamaha has little or no effect on speaker setup when you use it in the "External Decoder" setting. So for everything I listen to I don't have to mess with the Sub at all, but I do change between the External decoder and digital settings on my receiver. I used to just switch between "both" and "main" in the Sub setup on my Receiver, depending if I was watching movies or listening to music. Now I have to switch just the External Decoder on or off. Is this normal operating procedure? I do like the 45a, just not sure if the money spent oin it was worth it.

Any suggestions as what i should do? Is my setup all wrong? Is the 45a worth keeping? I was using a Toshiba 1600 DVD player before the 45a.

Thanks,

PAT

 

[Brian L]

Many 45A users (but not all) note that the LFE out of the 45A is down by as much as 10 dB relative to the main channels.

In my system (using the 5.1 outputs) I needed to make significant adjustments of the LFE channel trim to get everything even at 85 dB. This causes the Sub level for Pro Logic and Stereo sources to be way to high, thus the Sub trim for those is down quite a bit to get 75 dB across the board.

All that said, if you have not done so, I suggest using a SPL Meter and a test disc (Avia, for example) and see how things dial in.

You may or may not be able to get everything balanced. I can, but not everyone else has been successful.

There is a pretty lengthy thread on the subject. If you search for 45A you will find it. Personally, once I sorted that out, I really was happy with the player.

BL

 

[Brent_H]

I just replaced my 45a with the Denon 1600, and I can say that my LFE was definately lacking with the Pioneer....

 

[Mike Raub]

The bass from my 45A sounds fine, either with movies or with DVD-A or SACD. However, I do not have the 45A do any bass management at all. My pre/pro has bass management on the 6.1 analog inputs, so I just let it redirect bass to the sub. All my speakers are set "Large" in the 45A.

MIKE

 

[Brian L]

I just replaced my 45a with the Denon 1600, and I can say that my LFE was definately lacking with the Pioneer....

When balanced properly via an SPL meter and test tones, there is no lack of bass for ANY source on the 45a, Titan AE, for example can (and DID!) shake the house, as will the bass on Yes Fragile's Cans and Brahms (DVD-A). YMMV.

The issue with the 45A is that the level of the LFE is way below the other channels requiring large trim adjustments to get everything right. Nothing is missing, its just that the level is down.

Using an external DD/DTS decoder or using the 45A full range with BM handled elsewhere avoids the issue. I may eventually go with an ICBM because I would prefer an 80Hz crossover than a 100Hz as in the 45a.

BL

 

[Patrick Taylor]

Thanks for your replys. I have not calibrated my system with anything but the test tones.

Brian,
How did you adjust the "trim" for all sources? How do you compensate for the stero sources having more LFE than other sources.

I guess I compensated by letting my Yamaha use the "Both" for LFE setting for DVD's and switching from analog to digial outputs to watch DVD's on the 45a. This way, I don't have to mess with any settings on my sub when switching between sources. Probably not the best way to do things, but right now it works OK.

PAT

 

[Brian L]

How did you adjust the "trim" for all sources? How do you compensate for the stereo sources having more LFE than other sources.

My receiver (a Marantz SR-96) has separate trim controls for the 5.1 input, stereo (L/R and Sub) and ProLogic.

As such, I have three sets of trims that I can use depending on what's connected and how it is being played.

When I installed the 45A in place of an older DD decoder, I found that the main channel levels were close but the LFE/Sub was down so far that I had to set my 5.1 sub/LFE trim to max, and that was still too low. I then set the sub volume control up to compensate, but then when I switched to Pro Logic (decoded in the receiver) the sub was booming! That required that I then drop the stereo/Pro Logic sub level.

It took some twiddling, but I finally got everything balanced.

Right now, in my rig, I have the 5.1 sub/LFE trim at anywhere from +5 to +9 depending on program content, while the Pro Logic and Stereo sub level is normally 0 to -5, again depending on content. These number are meaningless to you, but they show the difference in the sub level.

Also, it should be said that I have the 45A set with all speakers small, sub on, and it is connected to the receiver through the 5.1 input (obviously, I hope). I also have the 45A set to fixed output.

One final point, when I say my channels match, I mean that with DD or DTS test tones, I get 85dB across all channels including the sub. With the internal Pro Logic tones, I balance to 75dB.

Of course, I know nothing about your receiver. You may or may not be able to dial it in as I have.

BL

 

[Ryan Spaight]

I believe the issue here is that the 10db boost to the LFE that's typically done for DD and DTS isn't being done on the 45A's 6-channel analog output. I've heard that adding that boost exceeds some standard for passing info through analog RCA jacks, but I don't how how true that is.

In any case, my 45A sounds great if I adjust my NHT sub as follows:

Anything decoded in the receiver (not using 5.1 analog connection -- DD, DTS, Satellite, CD using receiver DAC, etc.): sub volume at 9:00

Antything passed through the 5.1 analog connection (SACD, DVD-A, CD using player DAC): sub volume at 12:00

45A is set to all speakers small, sub on, volume fixed. (Equivalent to all channels +6db in variable mode.)

Your settings will vary of course, but that gives you some idea of the difference in bass levels between the two.

Ryan

 

[Brian L]

FWIW, I have been in contact with Pioneer throughout this whole inquisition. They advised that they were looking at the issue, and forwarded all of my e-mails to their engineering people.

I pinged them yesterday, and was advised that they are still looking into the matter, and would advise when some conclusion is reached.

I personally am not expecting a fix, but I would appreciate a thorough explanation for why we are seeing this.

FTR, I agree with Ryan regarding the possibility of a missing +10 boost that DD requires. That would explain a lot. One missing piece of the puzzle is that no one to my knowledge has tested with DVD-A or SACD test tones. All our data and observations are based on DD or DTS test tracks. It is possible that testing with DVD-A or SACD tracks would not produce the same result.

Then again, with these new formats, the game changes; who nows what the outcome will be.

BL

 

[Patrick Taylor]

Thanks for the comments.

I could keep adjusting my sub for different sources, but I find it is a pain to keep messing with the sub. It is pretty easy to just switch on my "Both" settings on my Yamaha Receiver to watch DVD's, using digital inputs, if I want the LFE channel to have any balls to it. For music and DVD-A the analog settings are fine, and I like the fact that my music sounds less "brite" by using the analog connections.

I do like the player, but still think it might be overkill for my system.

PAT

 

[Dave Moritz]

I would agree that the video off turns off the video section of your Pioneer dvd player. Although I do not have the Pioneer DV-45A I own the Sony 9000ES that allows you to do the same thing. From what I understand that by switch off the video output. This is supposed to lower the noise floor of the unit and help with improveing the audio performance. Am not sure how true this is but I normally only shut off the video when playing SACD back in the 9000ES Sony. I am thinking of getting a Pioneer Elite dvd player that is also a dvd-a player this would be my back up dvd player and also alow me to what a second dvd in another room via a second zone. I would love the input from people who own a Pioneer Elite model. My choices are Pioneer Elite, Denon and maybe Marantz ?
Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to all.

 

[Brian L]

I would love the input from people who own a Pioneer Elite model.

Search this forum for "45A". You will get lots of discussion from owners of that player.

I have the 45A and think its a great player at a great price (low LFE notwithstanding).

BL