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Questions for people who haven't gone Blu yet... (1 Viewer)

cadavra

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Originally Posted by Bob Cashill

As someone in the biz, Mike S., I'm surprised you're so adamant about this, but then again I was, too, till I caved.


[COLOR= #0000cd]Well, you asked the question now. If, say, three years from now, S-DVD has been phased out and it's Blu or nothing, then of course I'll cave. If someone gives me a player for my birthday, fine, I'll use it. And if I were the sort of person who watches the RESIDENT EVIL movies over and over again, I'd jump in the air and sing "Sweet Sue." But right here, right now, I see no need for it. It's not a hostile stance, just a practical one.[/COLOR]


[COLOR= #0000cd]Mike S.[/COLOR]
 

WinstonCely

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After skimming over quite a few of these posts, it seems like there's a lot of misunderstandings about what Blu-ray is and what high definition means. Replacing entire DVD collections aside, it seems as though Blu would move a lot more units if there was more easily attainable information on why it's worth the jump from SD.
 

mdnitoil

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Weird, I thought most of us had a perfect understanding of what blu is and what high definition means. We're just not interested in spending any money on it. Of course if someone gave me a player for free I'd be happy to hook it up. Provided of course that the SD component was region free, otherwise it would actually be a step backwards for me.
 

Jeff Willis

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DellaStMedia
After skimming over quite a few of these posts, it seems like there's a lot of misunderstandings about what Blu-ray is and what high definition means. Replacing entire DVD collections aside, it seems as though Blu would move a lot more units if there was more easily attainable information on why it's worth the jump from SD.

I guess it depends on the individual collector's situation. Catalog (older film and TV/DVD) title availibility is my main reason for not entering the BR mkt. My 2nd reason is that I have a good upconvert R-Free player at present and I'm satisfied with my upconvert picture Q on the 50" Plasma. My 3rd reason is that I'm waiting for the modified BR R-free player prices to drop more. They've dropped as everything usually does in time but I'd like to see them come down more before considering a purchase. Double-dipping would be a temptation for me if I had the BR player now, but I doubt I'd dd except for a rare title exception.


Quote:

Originally Posted by mdnitoil
Weird, I thought most of us had a perfect understanding of what blu is and what high definition means. We're just not interested in spending any money on it. Of course if someone gave me a player for free I'd be happy to hook it up. Provided of course that the SD component was region free, otherwise it would actually be a step backwards for me.

Good point about the R-Free point. BR players are available for R-free playback of both formats but they're a little pricey for me at present (the ones that are hard-mod'ed).

One poster has provided me with an answer to a question that I've been curious about for a while, as to how the upconvert picture Q compares with a SD upconvert player vs the BR player upconversion.


Most at HTF are far more knowledgable than I about HD, 1080p, etc, but correct me here:


Is an upconvert 1080p SD DVD (via HDMI) player output going to be the same as a BR player that upconverts a SD DVD output?

I guess the bottom line would reside with the individual's eyes....how does it compare on one's viewing setup (display, viewing distance) with a side-by-side comparison?


If I were to see a definitive difference in SD DVD upconversion from a BR player, then I'd be interested in buying a BR player.
 

Professor Echo

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Jeff, I can't furnish you with detailed specs and comprehensive charts that prove the superior upconverting quality of a Blu player with SD titles, but you know me and, I hope after all these years, trust me at least a little. I went Blu simply because I needed a new DVD player and I felt I would be going backwards to buy another SD player when for about $20 more I could get a nice moderately priced Blu player. As a film historian/critic and teacher, I collect mostly catalog titles and really didn't anticipate ever building much of a Blu library. Like Mike S. has indicated, there was no practical reason for me to go Blu, but it still didn't feel right for me to just make a lateral move and get a new SD player when the opportunity to upgrade was there without an inordinate strain, even if that upgrade translated into minimal use for me. I just thought a part of it was investing in the future.


I won't belabor the points already made about the technical advantages of Blu, just echo that on the few catalog titles I have bought (e.g. HOW THE WEST WAS WON, THE SEVENTH VOYAGE OF SINBAD, BECKET,PANDORA AND THE FLYING DUTCHMAN, et al.) the difference between Blu and SD has been spectacular, much more than I had ever envisioned even with all the hype. If is as close as I have ever come to the quality of a theatrical screening on home video and reminds me of the days when I operated and programmed screening rooms. Back then I was able to experience so many classic and not so classic films in 35mm and 16mm in a relatively intimate setting, so it has some relation to the typical home theater these days.I won't say it equals projected film, but it is the closest I have ever seen to it on a television. I believe noted film archivist Robert Harris has stated similar on this very site and he is certainly more learned in this regard than yours truly.


As for the upconverting capabilities, again without hard evidence to back it up, just my own discerning perception, I have noticed a definite difference between SD discs played on my Blu player and then A/B tested on my other SD player. Of course, we are talking about two different hardware manufacturers and other factors which might account for the discrepancy, but even my gf, who is as far removed from technology as Jack The Ripper was from romance, commented on the dramatic change in clarity between the two players. For Christmas I received an excellent OPPO SD player (to replace my ailing multi-region unit) and since they are known for their excellent upconversion, I will compare that to my Panasonic Blu and see if there is still a marked difference. But for now, I can only say that I personally have seen a better upconverted picture with Blu.


I will most likely be proven wrong on this, but right now I believe Blu may ultimately represent a peak of sorts for watching media, something that streaming will not equal anytime soon. Just like CDs represented a relative decrease in sound quality from vinyl, and MP3 lowered the standards even more, streaming might be yet another step backward. But it looks as though at least the next generation will heartily embrace it for watching on hand held devices and, as such, render lavish home theaters into nothing more than another technology bastion for middle age men. LOL.
 

marcco00

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for me, the issue is that a 1080p tv set/blu player is the wrong resolution for playing back a standard DVD. they have a six-times greater resolution than the 480p of a DVD. there is a loss of clarity, picture quality-- the image is soft and a bit blurry when you stand close. it looked better on your old analog television.


i really feel that television manufacturers went for this great leap in resolution hoping that the public would replace everything in blu.


if i had a lot of dough, i would go blu..... but with an entirely separate 1080p tv & blu ray set-up on which i would play only blu ray.


i would continue to play my SDVD, and yes, my vcr(!!) on my 720p set.
 

Gary OS

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Walker, I definitely respect your opinion and really appreciate your take on the issue. You have given me much food for thought on the entire issue. At this point in time I still don't plan on upgrading to Blu for two reasons. The first reason is that there just isn't anything out there on Blu that I really want badly. Almost every film and TV series I'm interested in is on DVD and not Blu. And while I definitely believe, based on your report, that a BR player will upgrade my viewing experience, I'd still need a player that is region free. My second reason is just a matter of practicality. I have four different dvd players, two of which are only about a year old, so I'm just not ready to buy another player at this time. But based on what you've told me, when the time comes for me to purchase another player, I'm going to take a serious look at a region free (hard wired, if you will) Blu-ray player.


Gary "thanks for taking the time to share your experience on this issue" O.
 

Professor Echo

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Marc, your reasoning would seem to indicate that you don't want any upconversion at all for SD, but just as a FYI, Blu players include a setting for watching any DVD in 480p. You don't have to watch it upconverted and it is not a fixed setting for 1080p.


Gary, thanks for your great response. I agree with your logic and as we have discussed before and has certainly been covered in this thread, the lack of a substantial number of catalog titles in BLu should be a concern for collectors like you and I. Like many others who have posted here, I never thought I would get into Blu for that very reason, but for the few older titles that are out there and the exceptional upconverting ability, I haven't regretted my upgrade in the slightest. Seeing SNOW WHITE and SLEEPING BEAUTY in Blu is a transcendent experience.


But you are primarily a vintage TV collector and as such, I don't think Blu would offer you much of an advantage as the market stands now. To follow Marc's idea, I admit that a lot of classic TV would not benefit from Blu technology, if only because it was never meant to be seen with the clarity of a projected motion picture. Yes, aesthetically it might, but historically and contextually no. Seeing something like THE MAN FROM UNCLE in 1080p might wow the senses at first, but in the end it might be akin to trying to make the Mona Lisa be in 3-D. On the other hand, some old TV shows that were beautifully shot and/or utilized location filming, might simply be breathtaking in HD. I have the original PRISONER series and I think it looks amazing in Blu. Shows like FLIPPER ,SEA HUNT,RAWHIDE or ROUTE 66, all of, which prided themselves on actual location filming, or the first three seasons of THE FUGITIVE with its evocative high contrast black and white film, and even anthology series like THE ALFRED HITCHCOCK HOUR which often used expert feature film cinematographers, could conceivably transform the experience into something very fresh and exciting.


So my advice would be to keep an open mind and don't negate the entire concept of Blu Ray or any other technological innovation without due consideration and the option to adapt at some later point.
 

Worth

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Originally Posted by Point-Blank

Marc, your reasoning would seem to indicate that you don't want any upconversion at all for SD, but just as a FYI, Blu players include a setting for watching any DVD in 480p. You don't have to watch it upconverted and it is not a fixed setting for 1080p.


If you're using a fixed-pixel display - pretty much anything other than CRT - the image is going to be upscaled one way or another. It's either scaled by the player or by the TV, so it's best to try it both ways and see which does a better job of it.
 

Professor Echo

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Agreed Nick, Thanks for the clarification. I'm sure there are advocates for watching everything on CRTs for that very reason. Back in the 80's I was convinced that no color CRT could match the B&W picture of a B&W only TV, so I understand that thinking to a degree.
 

gruagach

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My CRT still works fine. And my 5 or 6 year old DVD player also works fine (knock on wood). My flat is so small, I don't have room for extra equipment. So until one or the other breaks down into dumpster fodder, I'm happy with what I have.
 

Worth

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I think an SD picture looks better on a standard CRT than on an HD set of equivalent size.
 

Joseph Bolus

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I resisted Blu until December 2009. My logic was that my projector was native 720p and I therefore wouldn't be able to see that much of a difference between upscaled DVD and Blu. I was wrong. The difference has been substantial, and I've actually replaced quite a few of my existing DVD library discs as a result. But I still own the bulk of my library on DVD -- and am still purchasing Classic TV on DVD. The Panny Blu player does almost as good a job at upscaling my standard DVDs as the old Tosh 'XDE' upscaling player -- which proved to be my last standard DVD player. Except for Classic TV all of my recent purchases have been Blu or Blu Combo packs. The Combo packs are actually useful for me as I can then pass the DVD to my daughter for playback on her laptop and/or portable DVD player.


I absolutely *love* the format. One of the first Blu's which we purchased was"The Music Man"; and that title alone came close to justifying the adoption of the format. The DVD iteration of that movie was close to being un-viewable and the Blu was just like seeing it in the theater on opening night. And with better sound to boot!
 

Adam Gregorich

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Originally Posted by ahilal

There are newer movies that would look good in hi-def (Lord of the Rings) but I own the ones I really care about on DVD and even though I purchased some of them 5 or 8 years ago it feels like I just bought them (not cheap, either, what with the extended editions, etc). If I admit that those went obsolete so quickly, I have to think twice about shelling out the dough for another format, because how long will it be relevant? I tend to get stuck in this loop.


Another factor is the general exodus of plastic discs from my routine. I buy games via online services now - it's nice to have them on the hard drive instead of playing with the disc in the drive (they're always slow to whirrr up and load the next level). I buy music from iTunes. I stream hi-def on Netflix. I back up to the cloud, not burnables. Committing to any plastic disc format doesn't seem to be with the flow of where things are going (this is probably a premature feeling, still, but it's there). I've had a lot of self-burned discs go bad, too. I know that commercial ones are more durable, but still this contributes to my (possibly irrational) inertia in committing to any plastic disc format.

You bring up an interesting point about migrating to the cloud. I am a BD adopter and if a new title I want is available in both BD or DVD, I buy the BD. Having said that I am shocked at how quickly the music market died. Its been years since I bought a CD or LP. I buy songs and albums on Amazon. Since convenience is a lot more important to a lot of consumers over quality (not saying that applies to you), I wonder how many users will skip BD completely and go to the cloud. With the prevalence of mobile devices, and streaming Netflix I bet a huge number of consumers will go from DVD to the cloud. UltraViolet will help that as well. I have a whole house DVR (Windows Media Center) and having moved all my TV to being DVR based, I am wondering if that will be my "gateway drug" to the cloud for movies. While I say today that I have no intention of moving to the cloud, it will be very interesting to see what I am doing in two years....
 

Adam Gregorich

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Originally Posted by DaveF


As to the discussion about which is better between an up-converting SD player or using a BD player to up-convert I think it depends on the player. I can see where since BD players cost more its possible that a more expensive up-converter could be used in a $200 device than in a $49 device, but there is no way to know for sure and with player prices dropping its anyone's guess. Give it another year and DVD players will own the $50 and under market and BD players will own the over $50 market.


There
 

mdnitoil

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It's funny that you mention the cloud because that's where I seem to be going. Just spent the evening getting my Windows Home Server set up. 5 TB of storage with plenty of room for expansion and the latest high efficiency drives and power supply so it doesn't kill my electric bill. Now for the slow process of ripping my discs to the server. The thing that pushed me over the edge? Shelf space. I've got over 2000 titles and I'm just flat running out of room to put them all, and my organization has gone to hell once I started building stacks on top of the rows. Another couple of years of disc buying and my wife would probably throw me out of the house. I don't know it for a fact, but I'm guessing once I get used to having my collection on hard drives, streaming/download won't look like that big a deal. Once that happens, all bets are off. So yeah, I can easily see myself simply bypassing the whole blu experience. Not really deliberately mind you, just the way it's working out.
 

Gary OS

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mdnitoil

It's funny that you mention the cloud because that's where I seem to be going. Just spent the evening getting my Windows Home Server set up. 5 TB of storage with plenty of room for expansion and the latest high efficiency drives and power supply so it doesn't kill my electric bill. Now for the slow process of ripping my discs to the server. The thing that pushed me over the edge? Shelf space. I've got over 2000 titles and I'm just flat running out of room to put them all, and my organization has gone to hell once I started building stacks on top of the rows. Another couple of years of disc buying and my wife would probably throw me out of the house. I don't know it for a fact, but I'm guessing once I get used to having my collection on hard drives, streaming/download won't look like that big a deal. Once that happens, all bets are off. So yeah, I can easily see myself simply bypassing the whole blu experience. Not really deliberately mind you, just the way it's working out.


Scott, are you going to still keep the original discs or are you going to eventually eliminate them? I could never see myself going the route you are (in spite of running out of room myself) simply because I couldn't stand the thought of a hard drive failure wiping out my whole collection. Or a freak power surge doing the same thing. No, no, no! I will not being going the way of the "cloud" if and when it happens. I just refuse to allow streaming via the net or anything equivilant to that be my only option. If that happens, I'll be content to live with what I already own on SDVD and buy a couple of extra players as spares if they are phased out of the market. I want to hold what I own in my hands. If I can't do that then I'm done with collecting.


Gary "just my two cents" O.
 

mdnitoil

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I expect to keep the discs, I'll just be in a better position to put them in storage instead of having to keep them readily available. That's a big difference in my house, space-wise.
 

Jeff Willis

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Point-Blank /forum/thread/307615/questions-for-people-who-haven-t-gone-blu-yet/60#post_3770426
It's funny that you mention the cloud because that's where I seem to be going. Just spent the evening getting my Windows Home Server set up. 5 TB of storage with plenty of room for expansion and the latest high efficiency drives and power supply so it doesn't kill my electric bill. Now for the slow process of ripping my discs to the server. The thing that pushed me over the edge? Shelf space. I've got over 2000 titles and I'm just flat running out of room to put them all, and my organization has gone to hell once I started building stacks on top of the rows. Another couple of years of disc buying and my wife would probably throw me out of the house. I don't know it for a fact, but I'm guessing once I get used to having my collection on hard drives, streaming/download won't look like that big a deal. Once that happens, all bets are off. So yeah, I can easily see myself simply bypassing the whole blu experience. Not really deliberately mind you, just the way it's working out.

Good point, about bypassing BR. I've wondered that myself, that it may pan out for me with the onset of streaming, etc. By the time I might be inclined to enter the BR mkt, it may be on the decline.
 

Worth

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I think the whole DVD upconversion issue has more to do with the quality of specific players - and individual preference - than it does with formats.


I have a PS3, an Oppo DVD player noted for the quality of its upconversion, and a modified Panasonic region-free blu-ray player. When it comes to playing DVDs, I'd rank the scaling on the Oppo as superior to the PS3, but not as good as the Panasonic.


Given how low blu-ray player prices have fallen, I'm surprised that so many film fans haven't yet embraced the format. My main interest is in more obscure catalogue and foreign titles, so I still watch a lot of DVDs, but when there's an option, it's great to be able to watch films in HD that equal, and in some cases surpass, the quality of a 35mm print.
 

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