Questions About Older Movies On Blu-Ray + TV In Widescreen (1 Viewer)

[Douglas Monce]

Depends on who you ask and what format you are viewing, IE is it 35mm anamorphic....35mm flat, Super 35, 70mm ETC.

It is generally accepted that academy ratio 35mm film has about the equivalent or perhaps slightly more than 4K resolution in digital terms. HDTV at 1080 resolution is a little more than 1k. A 2k system is 2048x1080 and a 4k system is 4096x2160. At them moment there are only a few 4k theatrical installations world wide.

There are however other things that can effect the apparent resolution of film projected in a theater. Gate weave (the slight movement of the film from side to side in the projector gate) can reduce the apparent sharpness of the image. Also a film that you see in a multiplex is between 4 and 5 generations away from that original 4k equivalent film. So what you are actually seeing maybe closer to 2k resolution. Also your local theater may or may not have the best optics available.

Then there is the factor of the digital intermediary. Some films, in fact probably most of them now, are scanned digitally for color and other corrections before being printed back out to film. This means that whatever the resolution it was scanned in at is going to be the top end. Until recently most films were scanned at 2k, but 4k now seems to be the standard.

Doug

 

[Danny_N]

That would make a well mastered BD almost as good as the typical 35mm release print you see in commercial cinemas or not?

 

[Douglas Monce]

Yes HDTV is close to 2K, but it has a much more limited color space than the digital projection you see in the theater.

Yes a 1080p blu-ray disc is fairly close to the resolution that you may see in your local theater from film projection. This is one of the reasons that the studios are so big on copy protection. It is potentially possible for a pirate say in China to take a blu-ray disc, crack the copy projection, and then use the digital files to scan out a reasonably good copy to 35mm film for distribution in that country.

Doug

 

[cdafunk]

hello -- new guy here.. i have a question.. in regards to 1.85 aspect ratio - that is generally widescreen on DVD players but yet on my PS3 it ends up being full screen in blu ray. ??? the only ratio's that i can find or understand are true widescreen are 2.35 and 2.40 aspect ratios... the pictures seem much clearer. now the true reason of the question is that I just purchased the batman anology on blu and the aspect ratio's are 1.85.. not a huge fan as the picture seems stretched... i have not opened this yet, and want to return, but I am trying to figure out if there is a technical answer to this.. how can I make the 1.85 appear in widescreen format - with the bars?

thanks,

 

[TravisR]

Originally Posted by cdafunk

hello -- new guy here.. i have a question.. in regards to 1.85 aspect ratio - that is generally widescreen on DVD players but yet on my PS3 it ends up being full screen in blu ray. ??? the only ratio's that i can find or understand are true widescreen are 2.35 and 2.40 aspect ratios... the pictures seem much clearer. now the true reason of the question is that I just purchased the batman anology on blu and the aspect ratio's are 1.85.. not a huge fan as the picture seems stretched... i have not opened this yet, and want to return, but I am trying to figure out if there is a technical answer to this.. how can I make the 1.85 appear in widescreen format - with the bars?

thanks,

I'm not sure I'm understanding your question fully but a movie that is 1.85 won't have bars because the TV and the movie are both the same shape. You'll only have bars on an HDTV if the movie's aspect ratio isn't 1.85.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

And 1.85:1 is as much a "true widescreen" aspect ratio as 1.66:1, 2.35:1 or 2.60:1. Anything wider than 1.37:1 is "widescreen" as defined by the movie biz. If you're seeing a "stretched" or distorted image, I suspect that output settings on the DVD players you've previously owned have been "off". 1.85:1 is so close to 1.77:1 (the physical aspect ratio of most widescreen TVs) that there is no practical difference between the two, especially considering the effect of overscan. Thus a 1.85:1 filme (like a 1.77:1 HD TV show) should fill the screen. (It would, of course, have letterbox bars on a 4:3 - AKA 1.33:1 - TV.) As long as you're not seeing black "pillar box" bars on the right and left sides of the screen, you're seeing a widescreen image. (These should only show up when you're watching a 1.37:1 Academy Ratio film like Casablanca or The Wizard of Oz or some other mostly pre-1950s film, or a pre-HDTV 1.33:1 TV show.)

Regards,

Joe

 

[Stephen Tu]

Exactly what model TV are you watching on? Is it a 4:3 set or a 16:9 set? If the movie is truly "stretched" perhaps you have a tv shape setting wrong, or aspect setting wrong on your TV.

On a *16:9* set, 1.85:1 will usually take up the whole 1.78:1 screen for a couple reasons, overscan (the difference between ratios is only ~4 percent, and most TVs other than plasma/LCD in "dot for dot"/"just scan" mode will overscan more than this), and because a lot of 1.85:1 films actually are transferred at 1.78:1. 1.85:1 films are usually shot full frame, and matted for theatrical presentation. This leaves extra picture on top&bottom not seen in the theater which is utilized for video transfers. This makes it easier for older full screen 4:3 transfers, they don't have to crop the sides as much/at all. That's why for a lot of films if you compare the 4:3 full frame version to the 1.85:1 widescreen, you'll see the 4:3 just has more picture on top & bottom. For 1.78:1 transfer they just add a little bit top&bottom, much less than for a 4:3 release.

But if you have a *4:3* old non-HDTV, or one of those early 4:3 HDTVs, and are seeing the whole screen being filled, then you have a setting problem.

 

[cdafunk]

thanks for the responses -- i don't think I stated my question accuratley though. When I play a DVD at 1:85 aspect ratio it is wide screen on my TV, however when I play a blu-ray with a 1:85 aspect ration via my PS3 it is full screen. the only blu rays that appear to be actual widescreen on my TV are that of 2:35 or 2:40. with that it appears from the responses that it could very well be a setting of sorts maybe on my PS3?

thanks,
C

 

[Jeff Gatie]

It sounds like the PS3 is set for 3:4 output. Set the TV screen type to 16:9.

 

[Stephen Tu]

You aren't going to get anywhere if you don't answer our questions and just keep repeating yourself.
Again:
What is the brand and model # of your TV?
Is it an old, 4:3 set, or a new widescreen 16:9 HDTV?
Playing either a DVD or a Blu-ray on the PS3, are the images on screen in proper proportion, or is every thing distorted & looking taller & thinner than normal?

 

[Stephen Tu]

Originally Posted by Jeff Gatie

It sounds like the PS3 is set for 3:4 output. Set the TV screen type to 16:9.

It sounds very much the opposite to me. Almost certainly he has a 4:3 TV set but the PS3 is set to 16:9.

 

[cdafunk]

it is a new tv - magnavox HDTV - while playing a DVD or Blu-ray on the TV with an aspect ratio of 1:85 everything is taller and thinner than normal and looks horrible. the only format that looks good on the Blu-ray is the 2:35 or 2:40 ratio, that is why I am questioning. when I play a DVD on the Blu-ray it expands the image.

 

[Scott Calvert]

I dunno why a 1.85 blu-ray would look tall and skinny and 2.35 would look normal, as the native resolution is 1.77. A 1.85 film should fill the screen and 2.35 should have small horizontal black bars at the top and bottom of the screen. You said this is a new HDTV so I am assuming it is widescreen? You don't have it hooked up using the RCA or S-Video jacks to you? You should use the component or HDMI connections for blu-ray to get a high-def signal. The setting for the blue ray player should be to output to a 16x9 televison as well.

 

[Stephen Tu]

What model # TV? We need this so we can give you precise instructions rather than generalities.

On the PS3, go to display settings/video output settings. I'll assume you are using HDMI. Set it to automatic. Hit the "info" button on the TV to see if you are getting 1080p. If not, try forcing to 1080p instead of automatic. (or 1080i if the TV won't accept 1080p).

On your DVD player if you want to use it for comparison, also set the TV shape to 16:9.

Hit "format" on the TV until it is set to either "widescreen" or "unscaled". What did you have it on before?

It is bizarre that 1.85:1 would be distorted but 2.35:1 is not. They ought to both be distorted if they are both Blu-ray (most likely because using wrong "format" on TV). Or is the 2.35:1 a DVD, not Blu-ray? Supply us with example titles of the latter, and are you *sure* it's not distorted? I think the latter probably does expand to widescreen, but still tall+ thin objects, if you had your "format" on "automatic". My guess is your TV was format automatic, PS3 was set to 16:9 output but 480i/480p, causing the issue.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Clayton: [SIZE= larger] Please[/SIZE] tell us (read: Stephen) what model your set is and how it is hooked up.

As soon as you do, you'll get the answer you are looking for.

 

[cdafunk]

hello -- the model # is 37MF321D37 - for a title example is the blue ray - Hellraiser 1:85 aspect ratio.
the PS3 is hooked up to the tv via HDMI -- the dvd player is hooked up via S video... basically the 1:85 or 1:77 let's say on a normal DVD - Scream is "widescreen" with the bars above and below. however for example the Hellraiser blu-ray - same aspect ration, but different format - fills the screen. Does all of this help, or is there anything else I am leaving out? thanks

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Hellraiser is NOT the same aspect ratio as Scream. Hellraiser is 1.85:1 and therefore should fill the screen of your Magnavox LCD 16:9 HDTV. Scream is 2.35:1.

Does this solve the "mystery"?

BTW - which version of Scream do you own? The earliest release was a non-anamorphic widescreen release and that would complicate the matter even more. BTW, why on Earth are you using s-video for your DVD player? The best connection would be component, assuming HDMI is not an option.

What happens when you play Hellraiser on your PS3? (You do know that it can play SD DVDs, don't you?)

Are both your DVD player and your PS3 set to output to a 16:9 screen?

Do the same films look the same or different when played on each player?

Give us a list titles of each aspect ratio that you have available to you and let us a) verify the aspect ratios and b) suggest a couple of quick "tests" to run with both players.

But if the reason you think you have a problem is that Hellraiser isn't 2.35:1, you don't have a problem. (Except, perhaps, a misprint on the back of the DVD case.)

Regards,

Joe

 

[Stephen Tu]

OK, that makes more sense if you are using "Scream" as your example 2.35:1 movie. That's actually an atypical disc; it is not a "16:9 enhanced" aka "anamorphic" disc which would explain why it's not distorted given your current (most probably wrong) settings. If you plugged in a different 2.35:1 movie (say any of the "Star Wars" prequels, or the SE editions of the original trilogy), it will likely also look distorted in the PS3.

In any case, yes you are leaving out a lot! How about answering all my other questions from my previous post, and trying those settings out? I ask you like 6 questions you answer 2.

Hit the "format" button on the TV remote until it says "widescreen". What was it on before?
You should be using "widescreen" for all DVD/Blu-ray, except for oddball DVDs (not Blu-ray) like "Scream" which should use "movie expand 16:9", and old 4:3 DVDs like "Wizard of Oz" which should use 4:3. "Automatic" may or may not work after you get the settings on your disc players correct, I'm not familiar with Magnavox sets.

Set your DVD setup menu to 16:9 TV shape.
Set the BD player HDMI output resolution to auto, also try forced 720p (ignore my earlier post about 1080p, since you have non-1080p set). Select 16:9 if given an option. Hit "info" on the TV remote to confirm you are getting 1080i or 720p, not 480i/480p output from the BD.

Also, when you say "fills the screen", that seems to be contradicting the "tall and thin" statement. Are there bars on the sides of the picture or is it covering the entire screen? 1.85:1 movies are supposed to cover the entire screen. The main problem is whether the objects look stretched or not (do people look tall/thin or short/fat? do circles become ovals that are too tall or too wide?). And that should be addressed by the format button on the TV & the shape/output resolutions on the players.


Edited by Stephen Tu - 7/27/2009 at 02:12 am GMT
Edited by Stephen Tu - 7/27/2009 at 02:16 am GMT
Edited by Stephen Tu - 7/27/2009 at 02:19 am GMT

 

[cdafunk]

wow - this got complicated sorry for the confusion here... either rate -- what you are saying is that 1:85 should fill my screen on blu - ray... while on a DVD player it should not correct? ok another example - Blades of Glory - yes I know not a great movie but on blu-ray it is i assume 1:85 - which looks horrible on the Blu - ray - when I stated thin in stretched it fills up my entire screen, meaning no bars -- thus to me it looks stretched. hellraiser - the same thing it looks expanded - when I try to play that on the blu-ray - yes I have on my tv selected the format to 16:9 widescreen or automatic -- - it just appears to me the only movies that look clear on my tv using the PS3 via blu - ray are the 2:35 or 2:40 aspect ratio - while 1:85 does not look clear..

for my DVD player i have the bose surround sound system..it is the 1.2.3 system.

i will try the other sets --to see if I can get them to appear via widescreen to me - meaning bars below and top - which to me is widescreen and looks clearer..

another blu - ray was Postal - that fills the screen -

Part of my issue is that I have yet to open the batman set because it is 1:85 aspect ratio in blu-ray..

 

[Stephen Tu]

what you are saying is that 1:85 should fill my screen on blu - ray... while on a DVD player it should not correct?

Absolutely not. 1.85:1 should completely fill your screen with either DVD or Blu-ray, without distortion, if you have your settings correct. It should not look stretched, merely naturally filling the screen. It is widescreen when filling your set, because your TV is widescreen. 2.35:1 is merely "wider" screen thus has the black bars. But if objects are stretched, you are using wrong settings. There should be other settings that fill the screen, but without the distortion. This distortion you are seeing, are objects *taller* than they should be or *wider* than they should be?

You should *not* see bars when aspect ratio is very close to the ratio of your set which is 1.78:1. Seeing bars on a 2.35:1 movie is normal, since it is substantially wider than your set. But a 1.85:1 movie is not, if you see significant bars, then the picture has been squashed and people will look too short & fat. It will not be "clearer" this way.

yes I have on my tv selected the format to 16:9 widescreen or automatic

Which one? Set it so that it *only* says "widescreen". *Not* automatic. *Not* "movie expand 16:9" or anything else.

And what are the output settings for the Blu-ray? When you hit "info" on your TV remote, what is displayed? 480i/480p/720p/1080i?

There should also be an option on the Bose video settings for TV aspect ratio, set it to "widescreen".