Questions about H/K 525 delay settings (may apply to more H/K units)

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Jeff Meininger, May 29, 2003.

  1. Jeff Meininger

    Jeff Meininger Second Unit

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    Question #1. My H/K 525 allows me to enter measurement values for Center, Surround, and Surr Back speakers. How in the world can this possibly work if the distance between the main speakers and the listening position is not known? Delay for all channels should be relative to the mains. There's no other way to do it. Does the H/K derive this distance from the center channel distance? That would mean that there is no center channel delay at all... only delay for the surrounds. Or does it derive the distance from the value you enter for the surrounds (distance "from the screen")? If so, then how could the surround delay possibly be accurate since it's not relative to the LISTENER?

    Question #2. These values are only adjustable for Dolby modes. Does this mean that DTS will use the settings entered in a Dolby mode, or does this mean that speaker delay is not used at all when playing a DTS source?
     
  2. Jonathan M

    Jonathan M Second Unit

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    Question 1:

    Many receivers do this, or their older models did this. Basically, it is assumed that the distance from mains to listener and the distance from the centre to the listener is the same when the centre delay is set at 0ms. This is due to the fact that, in general, the centre is closer to the listener than the mains. Thus, all the delay settings are relative to the mains. The only case this does not handle is if the centre is further from the listener than the mains. I am unsure, however if even the new units which have delay settings for the mains handle this scenario - perhaps they just though any excess delay for the mains away (Stupid I know, but certainly plausible given some of the other things we have seen in the past). Perhaps someone will have to test this more thoroughly (I have some ideas [​IMG]

    Question 2:

    This, also I'm not sure about. My NAD T752 has the delay settings in a separate menu item, and doesn't specifically state whether or not they are applied in DTS mode. Certainly the channel level settings and bass management settings are applied the same in DTS as in DD - I have made measurements of this to verify it. I guess I'll have to do some more measurements of the delay behaviour - (Not too hard I think).

    Hope this has been some help. Actual H/K owners may be able to shed some more light on it.
     
  3. Jonathan M

    Jonathan M Second Unit

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    Further to my post above, technically one would need 4 numbers for a decent delay setup - all relative to the centre. My T752 for instance assumes that the delay of both surrounds is the same, as well as both fronts. While this is the case in the ideal room setup, it is not ideal in all setups, and further tweaking would be nice. Also, having a delay setting on all speakers including the sub would allow any audio/video synch issues to be remedied for those with front projection systems which can in some cases be a little delayed while they do their processing of the video.
     
  4. Jeff Meininger

    Jeff Meininger Second Unit

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    Your answer to my question #1 makes sense if the H/K allowed you to enter delay in ms, but it wants you to enter it in feet/meters. So how can it possibly know the distance from the mains to the listening position?

    -Jeff
     
  5. Jason Brent

    Jason Brent Second Unit

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    Jeff, did you figure this thing out with the delay settings?
     
  6. Kevin L K

    Kevin L K Second Unit

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    Jeff--
    I've spoken to h/k on the phone about this. Supposedly...the mains will be the same distance from you as the center, so the receiver uses the distance that is input for the center as the reference point and then figures out how much to delay the sound from the surrounds and the surround backs once you input the distances to those speakers as well.So--if the center is 7 feet, and the surrounds are 6 feet and the surround backs are 5 feet, it will delay the surrounds by by 1 millisecond and surround backs by 2 milliseconds.I explained how pathetic and inflexible this is--especially for such a well regarded brand name but the rep said that's how the engineers decided to do it--yeah right.VERY disappointing for such a great line of receivers!

    Also the part about setting the surrounds(& surround backs)relative to the the screen is a MISPRINT per the rep I spoke with.All speakers should be set per the distance from your listening position.

    As for the delay settings for DTS, the rep advised me the receiver uses the delay settings that have been configured for DD for the DTS formats as well.Hope this helps.
     
  7. Jason Brent

    Jason Brent Second Unit

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    OK, thanks.

    Thank stinks.....I don't like that at all. I'm hoping to move to separates late this year or early next year anyway, so I'll just live with this receiver for now.

    In my case, the speakers are almost equidistant from the sweet spot anyway so it's not a huge issue. My biggest complaint now has become the fan on this thing. It didn't bother me at first, but seems to be coming on at lower volumes, and is quite noticeable.
     

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