Question to all about people who sell discs here??

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Andy_B, Oct 29, 2001.

  1. Andy_B

    Andy_B Stunt Coordinator

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    We have the following rule for this forum.
    "Under No Circumstances is anyone to reply to a post suggesting that the item can be found cheaper elsewhere. That is the responsibility of the purchaser to look for the best deal - not for forum members to point out. Members are trying to sell their items in a safe environment without fear of others trying to undercut their sales."
    I understand and follow, but do not respect the intent of this rule.
    We go out of our way to keep track of people who we consider to be good traders and sellers on this forum which is a great help to those of us who dabble in this area.
    I personally do not consider people who try and screw others by jacking their prices to be "good".
    There is one guy on here who is constantly listing his sales prices on some discs (used and new) almost 50% HIGHER than one could get at their local Walmart. This is absurd to me.
    I do not think this forum does itself justice by punishing people who try and point out where others are price gouging and then turn around and support the people who do as the rule above seems to do.
    This seems to go completely against the nature of the Good Traders List IMO.
    YMMV, but I just wanted to mention this as it has been bothering me for some time now.
    Andy
     
  2. alan halvorson

    alan halvorson Cinematographer

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    I am the one responsible for this rule, because of an incident quite a while ago.
    Your concern is without merit. It is impossible for someone to "screw" someone on price. You have a choice to buy or not buy - are you not in control of your actions? If someone is willing to pay those higher prices, what business is it of yours? If no one is willing to pay the sellers price, the seller will certainly find that out - again, it's not your business.
    Unlike the rest of the forum, a For Sale/Trade post does not ask for opinions or enhancements. If you want to point something out to the the seller, you may do so by e-mail. You have no right to interfere in someone's attempt to sell, no matter what your opinion is.
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  3. Andy_B

    Andy_B Stunt Coordinator

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    quote: If no one is willing to pay the sellers price, the seller will certainly find that out - again, it's not your business.[/quote]
    My concern is NOT about the seller, but the person buying.
    There are new people here coming all the time, and if they see or make the mistake of buying something price gouged they might be MUCH less likely to come back and try again, which affects every one, including me, on here who is trying to buy and sell, which is certainly "my business".
    I guess I am most interested in the following part of the rule
    "Members are trying to sell their items in a safe environment without fear of others trying to undercut their sales."
    Could this not be written another way....
    "Members are trying to buy their items in a safe environment without fear of being price gouged."
    [Edited last by Andy_B on October 29, 2001 at 11:45 AM]
     
  4. Dennis Mc

    Dennis Mc Second Unit

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    Considering the fact that the HTF is a free service, I don't think anyone has a right to complain about the "rules". If you don't like how the forums are run and you don't want to play by the rules, than find another forum to post on or start your own forum.
    I agree with the rule of not undermining anothers prices. I don't care if you're new to this post or not, most people will take the time to do a price comparison and if they don't, that's not my problem.
    Personally, my prices are usually at least 30% off of retail but not always. I base it on what I paid for it + a small mark up. If I paid 60.00 US for a box set than I am obviously not going to sell it for 55.00 regardless of if you can buy it elsewhere for the same price.
    I have found very few people who have a problem with my prices and my feedback increases about +15 monthly.
    People can't be forced into buying and most people do the research before making a purchase.
    Also, most people post their items with a "loose" price and you can usually negotiate the final total.
    Anyway, I think the forum is great and I have no complaints. I agree with the MYOB statement and sincerely hope that the rules are enforced by the administrators. Thanks for the use of your forum and keep up the good work !
     
  5. Greg_Y

    Greg_Y Screenwriter

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  6. Scott_J

    Scott_J Cinematographer

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    I agree with Dennis. It is the buyer's responsibility to check prices prior to agreeing to buy a disc from someone on this forum (or at any e-tailers, for that matter). Personally, it's not a problem when I'm looking to buy discs here, because I have an idea of the MSRP of most discs, so I know what a reasonable price to pay would be. I'm sure most people on this forum are in the same boat as me. As for newbies who aren't as familiar with MSRPs, et al., they can easily go to www.dvdpricesearch.net and instantly get prices for about 10 e-tailers for any R1 disc. Problem solved.
    If member A posts a thread, selling Phantom Menace for $25 + shipping, and member B who is new to the forum buys it for that price, it's member B's fault. He could get it at 90% of e-tailers or B&M's for less than that. If he doesn't do his homework on prices elsewhere, he's out of luck. If member A can get someone to pay $25 for TPM rather than selling it for $17, more power to him. It's called capitalism, and it's what this country revolves around.
    Here's another scenario: Member A lists a thread with a bunch of titles for sale. Member B then posts in that thread listing a bunch of e-tailers that sell those discs for less. Member B has absolutely no right doing that. That is analogous to someone who owns a McDonald's standing in front of a nearby Burger King, telling people to go to Mickey D's because a Big Mac is $1 less than a Whopper. If consumers (in this case HTF members) don't do comparison shopping, they are SOL.
    So, in conclusion, admins, I think that rule that Andy_B quoted in his inital post is a great one to have.
    [Edited last by Scott_J on October 29, 2001 at 01:17 PM]
     
  7. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
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  8. Scott_J

    Scott_J Cinematographer

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  9. Andy_B

    Andy_B Stunt Coordinator

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    quote: Considering the fact that the HTF is a free service, I don't think anyone has a right to complain about the "rules".[/quote]
    Do you have "a-hole" stenciled in your forehead or is that just a magic marker? [​IMG]
    Geez, lighten up dude, I asked an honest question.
    Sounds like someone is pretty touchy considering I was not even referring to you...
    [Edited last by Andy_B on October 30, 2001 at 02:58 PM]
     
  10. Andy_B

    Andy_B Stunt Coordinator

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  11. Rob Gillespie

    Rob Gillespie Producer

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    The problem is, where would we draw the line? That nobody is allowed to post prices higher than Walmart? Or Amazon? Or BestBuy? Anyone who sells DVDs with Ebay on a regular basis will know that it's not difficult to get more than the original retail price.
    Realistically there has to be a big emphasis on buyer beware. We don't want people to be ripped off, but neither to do want to put a strangle-hold on the area with unrealistic rules. If someone posts a price and someone else is prepared to pay it, what are we supposed to do? As Alan said, the decision on whether or not to buy rests soley with the purchaser. We cannot take responsibility for prices.
    There is, of coure, a big disclaimer in the posting guidelines for that area:
     
  12. Mark Cappelletty

    Mark Cappelletty Cinematographer

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    I have to agree with Andy_B in part; at times, you see some of the prices posted and think "what in the hell is this person thinking?" But again, it's your choice to buy or not buy and make an informed decision. I'm always amused when somebody posts something at an exhorbitant price and has to keep "BUMPing" something a half-dozen times over the course of two or three days to keep his purchase in the public's eye.
    I've sold lasers online here and had to knock my prices down when they weren't moving, but I've had absolutely no problems here with anyone on the forum and have been pleased with the response.
     
  13. Andy_B

    Andy_B Stunt Coordinator

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    Thank you to all the polite replies.
    I understand the thought process better now and do agree that it would be hard to limit a seller on what prices they could or could not set.
    Andy
     
  14. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
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    Plus, you have to realize that most people are savvy enough to know when the asking price is too high. The deafening silence at their For Sale postings usually signals to the seller that they are asking too much for their wares.
    Plus, there's nothing to preclude any interested buyer in emailing the seller and making a counter-offer.
    The spirit of the rule is to not create an "anything goes" flea market atmosphere where decorum in the forum gets over-run in order to make a quick buck. I think the policy is fine as stated currently. If you don't like the price, make the counter-offer via email, or just let it go.
    The "free" market will decide if the asking prices are too high, or in some cases, too low (like I was miffed I missed on that $300 Pioneer 704 LD player the other day).
    The policy makes it so the admins don't have to play cops to squabbling sellers and would-be undercutters.
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  15. DennisHP

    DennisHP Second Unit

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    I think there should be a "Bad Traders List" so others can find out if a deal has gone bad in one way or another. As it is, the only way you can say your piece about a trade is to either give positive feedback or none at all. I know there is one person who I will not trade with again but they will remain nameless.
    I even sent the admins a copy of an email from this nameless person who used foul language calling me names just because I did not feel comfortable leaving them good feedback.
     
  16. Dennis Mc

    Dennis Mc Second Unit

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    I agree with Dennis.
    There should be a few revisions made to the "good traders" list. It would be great if we could set it up similar to how the ebay system works where you can leave positive, neutral, or negative feedback plus any comments you may have to say about the transaction.
    I would also like to say a few words about a certain individual, who shall remain nameless. However, I feel when a buyer receives payment, and a seller receives the merchandise (factory sealed), it's a good transaction regardless of wether there was a slight delay in shipping or not. Instances like this, I would not leave negative feedback. Possibly neutral but definately not negative. It would be childish and spiteful of me to leave a negative comment for someone when the shipping delay was beyond their control and especially since they kept in contact and made good on our deal.
    Anyway, back on topic. I think it would be a great idea to change the feedback area so that all feedback would be considered and not just the good stuff.
    Thanks.
    Dennis
     
  17. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    YOu guys are treating feedback as if it is/was a planned service of the HTF- which it isn't.
    1) I think the idea of a bad traders list in unrealistic... mostly because it is not the moderators' jobs, nor the owners' jobs to settle disputes. I can already see future situations where the feedback thread turns into a he said-he said arguement about a trade. No thanks.
    If someone wanted to privately run and maintain a traders list housed elsewhere, I can't see that anyone here would complain- but I think it's a bit much to ask for the staff to deal with arguements over trades gone bad.
    2) The idea of maintaining a 3 stage feedback rating is again, a bit much to ask. The whole "good trader's list" is an informal service maintained most recently by David Ely as a volunteer. I think it's getting a bit beyond the scope of such an informal thread to expect a 3 stage feedback system.
    Seems like something that would be easier to automate, and again- If someone wants to step up and maintain a traders list housed elsewhere, feel free.
    3) The only addition I would suggest would be straight rip-offs... names of anyone who has traded and never sent a disc (which I'm dealing with personally right now!) But even so- it would only be worthwhile for straight rip off trades, as I certainly see the overwhelming potential for problems and mediation if you extend it to people posting neg feedback for late discs or anything like that.
    -Vince
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    [Edited last by Vince Maskeeper on October 29, 2001 at 10:55 PM]
     
  18. Jeff Ulmer

    Jeff Ulmer Producer

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    Positive feedback isn't a problem, because noone complains about being praised for a good transaction. The problem with any sort of negative feedback is that it is open to much more abuse. Say the seller completes the transaction in good faith and the buyer later decides he wants a better deal, or wants to back out of payment or claim he never got the disc. Who gets the bad feedback?
    Using the positive approach, buyers can feel safe about those with the most feedback, and we don't get into a war over who ripped who off, for any number of possible reasons. As Vince says, the administrators don't want to be feedback police.
    As for pricing, if the market will bear it, the price is fair.
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  19. Parker Clack

    Parker Clack Schizophrenic Man
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    Just for clarification. The reason that we added this rule was because some member would come on the forum and post his/her product for sale and then you would have another member come into the very same thread and say "Hey. You can get this XX dollars cheaper than what this guy is selling you his stuff for." It never failed to happen.
    People just can't seem to refrain from trashing someone's elses thread when it comes to selling something. So the seller can sell without fear of someone coming in and trashing his/her post and the arrangement is between the buyer and seller.
    Parker
     

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