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Question - Progressive scan vs. 16:9 squeeze (1 Viewer)

Adam Bluhm

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Okay. This may turn into a couple questions.
With my future setup, I'll be purchasing a flat tube television which will be hooked up ONLY to a DVD player, and possibly a gaming console. Now, I've been torn on whether to spend the extra cash on an HD set. I thought of this question while at work. My question may take a couple sentences... :
Now, I think Toshiba sets have a 16:9 squeeze function, but anyway - does the squeeze funtion work while utilizing progressive scan? If I have an HD set and use progressive scan, can I also use a 16:9 function? Do they even include this option on HD sets?
Next part: Okay. I'll try to make this simple for you (more importantly, me :) ). Will the squeeze option on a standard analog set give me the quality of a HD set using progressive scan?
Well, if you've made it this far, here's what I'm thinking. I'll only be viewing DVD's and doing some possible gaming. If the squeeze funtion gives me HD quality, there's no need to get an HD set as I will not utilize the squeeze option with gaming. I'd be viewing all of my movies in widescreen format. Also, most games are not going to utilize progressive scan or any HD qualities (as I understand it, very few X-Box games will - maybe future consoles will. I guess that's something else to think about).
Thanks for any help, guys and gals. Let me know if you want me to clarify myself any more. I think I'm sounding a little confusing, here. :)
 

Adam Bluhm

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Well, this 56k at work is killing me. This reply should have gone in another thread. Disreguard this reply. :)
 

Roberto Carlo

Second Unit
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Apr 14, 2002
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To answer your first question: Yes, progressive scan and 16:9 squeeze can work together or independently, i.e., you can use one without using the other. I do this at home with my Toshiba RPTV.

As regards your second question: the combination of the 2 will give you the best picture NTSC video is capable of but it will still be NTSC video, not HDTV. It will be really good, but HDTV is better, a lot better. Still, a properly set up system will subjectively look better than a lot of cinema presentations.
 

Adam Bluhm

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I got ya. Thanks for the reply.
One more question. What does NTSC stand for? When you are referring to that and HDTV, I'm assuming you're referring to a progressive scan picture not looking quite as good as true HDTV.
Well, thanks for the reply. I'm still torn between analog and an HD set. I guess I'll keep weighing the pros and cons. :)
 

Marshall Sander

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Mar 1, 2002
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Adam -

I've just begun learning about this stuff, but I think progressive scan is a feature that only has use with an HDTV set -- although there are sum EDTV (enhanced . . . ) which support 480p but are not HDTV; however these sets are nearly as expensive as HDTV.

So, if you want to use progressive scan, you need a HDTV to enjoy the benefits.

The 16x9 squeeze can be used with any type of television -- but non HDTV televisions cannot display the quality of signal output by the progressive scan DVD player.
 

Adam Bluhm

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I'm pretty much at the same stage that you're at. :) I just don't understand the acronym he used.
I just figured 1080i would be a very similar picture as 420p. However, from what I read, there's a big difference.
Maybe someone can expand on this a tad. I'm 99.9% sure that the most a DVD player can put out is a progressive picture, and not 1080i. Is that correct? I keep on learning and the more I learn, the more I second guess myself.
What is boils down to is if an HD set for DVD viewing is worth the extra cash to me. I'm on the fence right now. Someone has yet to push me off. :)
 

Roberto Carlo

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I believe that NTSC stands for National Television Standards Commission (or Committee). The difference between progressive-scan DVD and true HDTV isn't a bit, it's a lot. Stated numerically, true HDTV has up to six times the pixels (1080 x 1920) that NTSC at its best has (480 x 640). As I stated earlier, a 16:9 and progressive scan DVD can, on a correctly set up set, look wonderful. But it's only a slight exaggeration to say that true HDTV is like looking through a window.
 

Robert Mayrand

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If you plan only using only a dvd player and a console there is no use in getting an HDTV. THe TV will only display the best the source is capable of. The best resolution you can get from a dvd will be 540 with a progressive scan dvd player at 4:3 (405 at 16:9) so the 1080i would'nt show all it's possibility. Vertical compression will increase the resolution but nothing similar to hdtv. A progressive dvd player with a progressive tv set (or what is knows as an HD ready tv) that can do the vertical squeeze would be the best investment for you. Only plan on buying an HDTV if you plan on connecting to an hdtv source as digital satellite tv or digital cable.

Rob
 

Jack Briggs

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It's National Television Standard Committee (the "standard" is singular).

The NTSC system is being phased out by the ATSC system, or Advanced Television Standards Committee ("standards" is plural here). Of the eighteen existing ATSC formats, four are of interest to us: 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p.

Yes, 480p--the "p" stands for progressive scanning--is operable in the 4:3 and 16:9 formats. If you were to purchase an XBR-series direct-view Sony, you'd get in all but one case a 4:3 native screen with a viable 16:9 mode.
 

Adam Bluhm

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This is not a stupid question because I am asking it. ;) I think I already know the answer, but I'll ask it anyway.
Are there DVD players manufactured that put out a high definition signal?
BTW, thanks guys. You've been most helpful.
htf_images_smilies_popcorn.gif
 

Allan Jayne

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Currently there are no DVD's with HDTV recorded on them and no DVD players that output HDTV. There may be a few that output 1080i format but the picture detail is no more than 480p.
There are lots of TV sets which have only 16:9 mode when playing a progressive scan or HDTV program. I would stay away from them. On these sets you have to watch 4:3 material stretched all the time, or use the S-video interlaced input.
Video hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/video.htm
 

Steve Schaffer

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A non-HD ready set will not accept or display a progressive scan picture--you will have quite visible scanlines even with a squeezed picture.

What you want is an HD-Ready set with a squeeze capability to get the best possible picture.

The improvement you get with 480p over 480i is much more noticeable than squeezed vs unsqueezed and downconverted by the dvd player.

AFAIK, all 4/3 HD-ready sets have a squeeze capability.

An analog set with squeeze would be a distant 2nd choice.
 

MikeyWeitz

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Feb 10, 2002
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If you plan only using only a dvd player and a console there is no use in getting an HDTV. THe TV will only display the best the source is capable of. The best resolution you can get from a dvd will be 540 with a progressive scan dvd player at 4:3 (405 at 16:9) so the 1080i would'nt show all it's possibility. Vertical compression will increase the resolution but nothing similar to hdtv. A progressive dvd player with a progressive tv set (or what is knows as an HD ready tv) that can do the vertical squeeze would be the best investment for you. Only plan on buying an HDTV if you plan on connecting to an hdtv source as digital satellite tv or digital cable.

No offense, but you make absolutely no sense here. You tell him not to buy an HDTV because it isn't worth it. Then you tell him to get and HD ready set with progressive player. The only difference between an HDTV set and an HDTV ready one is the built in HD Tuner. Then you say only buy and HDTV if you plan to hook it up to an HD source?
hey have made some EDTV's that will display progressive scan but not HDTV, but I don't think they make them anymore.


Anyway, I would go fo the HDTV ( I did). I use it for progressive scan DVD's and soon hooking up qan XBOX to it.
 

RyanDinan

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Are there DVD players manufactured that put out a high definition signal?
No, there are no commercial players manufactured that can do this BUT....

If you build yourself a HTPC (Home Theater Personal Computer), you can scale the video on DVD to 1920x1080, and output it to your HDTV. Of course, this won't magically give you more detail, as 1920x1080 worth didn't exist to begin with, BUT scaling to higher resolutions DOES reduce aliasing artifacts, and gives the appearance of a smoother, finer image.
However, I personally wouldn't reccomend scaling to 1920x1080, as it isn't an even multiple increase of the original data (720x480). If you scale in perfect multiples (2X, 3X, etc.) you avoid scaling artifacts, which can sometimes destroy fine details. However, allot of people in the HTPC community scale to 1920x1080, as it's not as bad as 1920x540p. I personally use 1440x480p - a perfect 2X increase in the horizontal resolution....

-Ryan Dinan
 

Michael Lomker

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May 17, 2002
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Adam, high definition DVD's are quite a long ways away. They are currently playing with "blue lasers" that can provide that capibility but I'm betting it'll be at least five years before it is viable.
Just this month JVC is releasing a digital VCR that can play in high definition. You can read a lot more about it in the last two issues of Widescreen Review and on their website:
http://www.dvhsmovie.com/home.asp
They are bleeding edge at the moment at about $1200, though.
 

Allan Jayne

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>>> If you plan only using only a dvd player and a console there is no use in getting an HDTV...

But if you want progressive scan, when shopping it may turn out that the TV that you like best happens to be HDTV capable.
 

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