Question for the people wanting the Warner detective shows. (1 Viewer)

[Tom.W]

If Best of sets are essentially the same as what was on Warner Instant Archive, I'd prefer edited season sets. If the Best of sets are substantially different than the WIA episodes, I'd take Best of. My hunch is that a Best of dvd/MOD release in the near future would be similar. Keep in mind that WIA did not include any first season 77 Sunset Strip episodes. Of course, none of the shows other than 77, Hawaiian Eye, or Surfside 6 has surfaced on WIA till now. For the other shows, I'd probably settle for Best Of sets.


For some of us, the musical interludes add a lot to the enjoyment of these shows. The plots are usually formulaic and interchangeable, although still fun to watch if you're into the genre. As much as I'd dislike losing the songs, the background music and cues are pervasive and characterize each show. If the library music is replaced, it would be a deal breaker for me. Hopefully, that wouldn't be necessary.

Music clearance is not just songs but also the music itself that maybe reused from other movies. Those royalties may have been cleared for those movies but not for use on Home Video for the tv series it is being used in. Warner Archive ran into the same issue for the WB westerns so far they have cleared all of Cheyenne, Sugarfoot and Bronco and are reportedly close on Lawman. But those shows were all delayed due to music clearance issues.

 

[howard1908]

I would take complete seasons sets over best of since I own all the series on bootleg ( most with musical numbers in tact), so if they cut the music out it would be of no consequence to me since if I wanted to hear it I could just reference my bootleg DVDs.

Now from a empirical standpoint I think it is likely we will see a release from WB on one of these series (most likely 77 sunset Strip) in the near future, my sympathy more or less lies with the folks wanting the obscure WB titles like the Alaskans, roaring 20s, eleventh hour and the islanders (forgive me if I forget a title or two I'm working from memory) not only are they plauged with the same music issues they also are too obscure for a ligitimate DVD release from the archive, in fact these shows are so obscure you'll be fortunate to find a bootleg.

 

[HenryDuBrow]

Maybe music replaced, if that's possible. Complete season sets for me with edits if need be, I never liked the idea of best of collections for anything.

 

[phenri]

I would take complete seasons sets over best of since I own all the series on bootleg ( most with musical numbers in tact), so if they cut the music out it would be of no consequence to me since if I wanted to hear it I could just reference my bootleg DVDs.

Now from a empirical standpoint I think it is likely we will see a release from WB on one of these series (most likely 77 sunset Strip) in the near future, my sympathy more or less lies with the folks wanting the obscure WB titles like the Alaskans, roaring 20s, eleventh hour and the islanders (forgive me if I forget a title or two I'm working from memory) not only are they plauged with the same music issues they also are too obscure for a ligitimate DVD release from the archive, in fact these shows are so obscure you'll be fortunate to find a bootleg.

The beauty of Warner Archive is that a show's obscurity doesn't matter. It will still be released if no obstacles (music) are preventing it. Of the obscure shows you listed, I think the Eleventh Hour has the best chance of being released from what I have read here.

 

[Don Crouch]

I'd think a multi-disc sampler from all the shows would be a great way to start..."The Warner Silver Age Detectives", or something like that, could prime the pump, and with strong sales, could inspire complete set completion, etc.......

 

[oldtvshowbuff]

Exactly right, Randy. The reason why it was so easy for them to release S1 of "Cheyenne" all those years ago was because that just happened to be the only season that used original scores and not library music. It was starting with the 1956-57 season that Warner decided to save money by using only library music on their TV shows and *that* is why years went by before we saw anything else from this era of Warner TV history. So the reason for the minefield is that in their zeal to be cheap back then they made the process for today a lot more expensive.

Actually, the studio went to library music starting in 1957-58, so S2 of Cheyenne in 1956-57 still had original scores by William Lava.

 

[davidHartzog]

I would prefer full season releases, but would settle for best of sets, although their idea of best of might be different from mine.

 

[jimmyjet]

neither, for me.


although i only recall the names of the first 3 shows.

 

[Tom St Jones]

WHY not atleast release the 77SS pilot movie GIRL ON THE RUN (which also had a brief theatrical release) on DVD/ MOD? If for no other reason than to test the waters...

 

[Neil Brock]

I believe that the market for shows from the 50s and 60s, especially the obscure ones, has either diminished or will diminish soon, to the point where WA will lose interest in future releases. Especially when it comes to shows which do not have existing tape transfers. Just my opinion, but I think if its a show like Room For One More or No Time For Sergeants for instance, which they would have to spend the money to pull out the 35mm prints, I don't see that happening.

 

[Lutz Koch]

I believe that the market for shows from the 50s and 60s, especially the obscure ones, has either diminished or will diminish soon, to the point where WA will lose interest in future releases. Especially when it comes to shows which do not have existing tape transfers. Just my opinion, but I think if its a show like Room For One More or No Time For Sergeants for instance, which they would have to spend the money to pull out the 35mm prints, I don't see that happening.

I agree with you in so far as obscure shows with no existing tape transfers are concerned. But you originally started this thread talking about the WB detective shows and we know that at least for 77 SUNSET STRIP the tape transfers are there, as witnessed on MeTV (which I can‘t watch, unfortunately). And this is not exactly an obscure show. So there must be other reasons. Music rights issues have been frequently mentioned. I don‘t know, can it really be that difficult? I mean, this is WB, they should be able to release their own stuff? Boy oh boy, this is sad...

 

[Randy Korstick]

I agree with you in so far as obscure shows with no existing tape transfers are concerned. But you originally started this thread talking about the WB detective shows and we know that at least for 77 SUNSET STRIP the tape transfers are there, as witnessed on MeTV (which I can‘t watch, unfortunately). And this is not exactly an obscure show. So there must be other reasons. Music rights issues have been frequently mentioned. I don‘t know, can it really be that difficult? I mean, this is WB, they should be able to release their own stuff? Boy oh boy, this is sad...

Yes it is sad that these are not released yet but the music rights are very complicated and very expensive for these shows because there were songs for every episode. Its not a matter of releasing their own stuff. Music rights entail paying royalties to the song writers or their estate if they are no longer around. The royalties that were paid for these songs in the past only included broadcast rights. There was no home video at that time so the music rights did not include home video. So Warner had to go through every episode to see which ones would need to have their songs cleared or royalties paid. I believe this has already been completed, but the huge cost of all the royalties they would have to pay far outweighs whatever profits they could make. And this is the holdup. I think the only chance is if some of these writers or estates lower their asking price but the catch to that as Neil pointed out is the market for these shows continues to shrink.

 

[Lutz Koch]

Randy, I‘m quite aware of the problems with music rights and royalties and so forth and I agree that a lot of money will have to be put on the table. But there are still two big questions in my mind which I can‘t resolve: Why is the market for classic TV on DVD shrinking, and why don‘t we see the same kind of problem when it comes to classic movies on DVD ( or blu Ray)? Just think of all those 30s/40s/50s movies that are released every year by WAC and others, many of them musical extravaganzas that don‘t seem to have much of a problem getting cleared. Obviously there must be a large enough market for them, or else they wouldn‘t be there. Most of them are so much older and much more obscure and forgotten than 77SS. Why is it so much more troublesome to get an old but still famous TV show released? Personally I wouldn‘t mind paying as much as $50 per season if it would get me complete and restored episodes.
Just wanted to add my 2c worth.

 

[Vic Pardo]

Randy, I‘m quite aware of the problems with music rights and royalties and so forth and I agree that a lot of money will have to be put on the table. But there are still two big questions in my mind which I can‘t resolve: Why is the market for classic TV on DVD shrinking, and why don‘t we see the same kind of problem when it comes to classic movies on DVD ( or blu Ray)? Just think of all those 30s/40s/50s movies that are released every year by WAC and others, many of them musical extravaganzas that don‘t seem to have much of a problem getting cleared. Obviously there must be a large enough market for them, or else they wouldn‘t be there. Most of them are so much older and much more obscure and forgotten than 77SS. Why is it so much more troublesome to get an old but still famous TV show released? Personally I wouldn‘t mind paying as much as $50 per season if it would get me complete and restored episodes.
Just wanted to add my 2c worth.

Just for the record, 77 Sunset Strip and the other WB detective shows (Hawaiian Eye, Surfside 6, etc.) weren't syndicated widely, if at all--I know I never saw any of them after their original runs--while numerous other b&w dramas from that period, e.g. Naked City, The Untouchables, Perry Mason, Gunsmoke, Wagon Train, et al, were. So audiences who didn't see 77 Sunset Strip when it was originally on wouldn't know it at all if it wasn't syndicated on their local stations, while young audiences continued to discover the other shows I named long after their original runs. Also...

Just think of all those 30s/40s/50s movies that are released every year by WAC and others, many of them musical extravaganzas that don‘t seem to have much of a problem getting cleared. Obviously there must be a large enough market for them, or else they wouldn‘t be there. Most of them are so much older and much more obscure and forgotten than 77SS.

I would argue that point with you. The Warner, MGM and RKO musicals of which you speak played often on TV in the '60s, '70s and '80s and young movie fans got to know these films well enough to want to own them on disc decades later when they got older. They didn't get to know 77 Sunset Strip and the other Warner detective shows.

I remember when 77 Sunset Strip was on, but it was on too late for me and my siblings to watch it. I think I watched the beginning of it a few times because it came on after The Flintstones or some other show we used to watch. I never saw a complete episode until I watched one on ME-TV last year. It was a Season One episode called "Pasadena Caper," and it was just awful.

 

[Gary16]

Just for the record, 77 Sunset Strip and the other WB detective shows (Hawaiian Eye, Surfside 6, etc.) weren't syndicated widely, if at all--I know I never saw any of them after their original runs--while numerous other b&w dramas from that period, e.g. Naked City, The Untouchables, Perry Mason, Gunsmoke, Wagon Train, et al, were.

“77 Sunset Strip” and “Hawaiian Eye” definitely ran in syndication where I live. Both were stripped but on different stations for at least a couple of years. I believe “Surfside 6” was as well but I need to check it out.

 

[Lutz Koch]

I remember when 77 Sunset Strip was on, but it was on too late for me and my siblings to watch it. I think I watched the beginning of it a few times because it came on after The Flintstones or some other show we used to watch. I never saw a complete episode until I watched one on ME-TV last year. It was a Season One episode called "Pasadena Caper," and it was just awful.

Well, I guess we have vastly different opinions on this show, unsurprisingly, since I did actually watch it as a kid in the sixties. We only got to see around 60 episodes in my country, but it was enough to get hooked for life.
And if you found The Pasadena Caper "just awful", you would definitely not make it through the rest of the series, because that is one of the high points of this show; it's one of the episodes that characterizes that special style of storytelling that made fans (like me) fall in love with it. But there are other folks on our 77SS thread elsewhere in this forum who can explain it much better than me.
And that's my final word on the subject. Sorry if I bored anyone with my fanboy babbling, I usually don't do that.

 

[Astairefan]

Randy, I‘m quite aware of the problems with music rights and royalties and so forth and I agree that a lot of money will have to be put on the table. But there are still two big questions in my mind which I can‘t resolve: Why is the market for classic TV on DVD shrinking, and why don‘t we see the same kind of problem when it comes to classic movies on DVD ( or blu Ray)? Just think of all those 30s/40s/50s movies that are released every year by WAC and others, many of them musical extravaganzas that don‘t seem to have much of a problem getting cleared. Obviously there must be a large enough market for them, or else they wouldn‘t be there. Most of them are so much older and much more obscure and forgotten than 77SS. Why is it so much more troublesome to get an old but still famous TV show released? Personally I wouldn‘t mind paying as much as $50 per season if it would get me complete and restored episodes.
Just wanted to add my 2c worth.

Now, I haven't seen the series, and I have no insider information, but, from looking around on Wikipedia and IMDB, I think your statement unintentionally nails EXACTLY why the show isn't being made available, and I'll tell you why I think that. For either 77 Sunset Strip or Hawaiian Eye, for example, we have shows that are an hour in length, and 77SS has 34 episodes in its first season, while Hawaiian Eye has 33. The closest equivalent of what WAC has released would be the third (26 episodes) and fourth (32 episodes) of Maverick, which were about $50 when they were first released. If music rights are a problem here, then I think the problem is that they want to get the costs DOWN so that they could release season sets at $50 (otherwise translated, if you really want it out, you may want to consider being willing to pay MORE than $50 a season, not "as much as"). Again, I don't know for sure, but this is what it looks like to me (and again, these shows probably aren't as popular/well-known as Maverick is, either).

 

[Lutz Koch]

The closest equivalent of what WAC has released would be the third (26 episodes) and fourth (32 episodes) of Maverick, which were about $50 when they were first released. If music rights are a problem here, then I think the problem is that they want to get the costs DOWN so that they could release season sets at $50 (otherwise translated, if you really want it out, you may want to consider being willing to pay MORE than $50 a season, not "as much as"). Again, I don't know for sure, but this is what it looks like to me (and again, these shows probably aren't as popular/well-known as Maverick is, either).

You're right, the third and fourth season of Maverick were/are $48 (S3 currently down to $36). And I didn't mind at all, because Maverick was also one of my holy grails. I had seen only a precious few episodes in the sixties, and after that one run, it was never ever seen again over here. I don't know its syndication history in the US, so I can't really say if it's more popular than 77SS. But based only on that distant memory, I bought the complete set of Columbia House Maverick tapes and years later the five seasons from WAC.
I just mention that to say that the price per season is not that much of an issue to me when I want something really bad. No, $50 would probably not be enough to cover the music rights, and that would make the whole deal unattractive to the casual buyer, but I guess putting it out as a MOD edition might be the way to go...

 

[cadavra]

It's not just a matter of cutting out performed songs. The underscoring is filled with standards by top songwriters of the era. I'd be surprised if the stems survived after 60 years, and if they didn't, it would cost a fortune to try and digitally remove music from a married soundtrack. I'm afraid it'll have to be all or nothing.

Mike S.

 

[Richard V]

“77 Sunset Strip” and “Hawaiian Eye” definitely ran in syndication where I live. Both were stripped but on different stations for at least a couple of years. I believe “Surfside 6” was as well but I need to check it out.

I remember those shows, especially Hawaiian Eye in syndication. Heck, I even saw Hawaiian Eye run in syndication in Mexico once, many years ago.