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Question for Rachael B re: Legato Link on the Pioneer CLD-704 LD Player

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Andy W, Jul 26, 2001.

  1. Andy W

    Andy W Stunt Coordinator

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    In a previous thread ( www.hometheaterforum.com/uub/Forum14/HTML/040153.html ), you mentioned twice that the Pioneer CLD-704 laserdisc player was the only non-Elite player to have Legato Link D/A conversion. I own this player, and I cannot find any reference to this player having Legato Link circuitry in the owner’s manual or accompanying Pioneer sales/marketing literature.
    The owner’s manual refers to the 704’s DACs as 1-Bit DLC D/A converters, and the sales brochure calls them twin 1-Bit D/A converters. Knowing how vigorously Pioneer marketed the words “Legato Link” to try to separate their products from the competition, one would think they would have called the 704’s DACs Legato Link, if Pioneer had built the technology into the unit.
    I am not doubting you, but could you please confirm where you read, saw or heard that the Pioneer CLD-704 has Legato Link D/A processing? Thank you very much.
    Regards.
    Andy
     
  2. Corbin Stirn

    Corbin Stirn Second Unit

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    I can answer for Rachael here [​IMG]. Thre 703 and the EARLY 704s have the Legato link........but you will never find any Pioneer literature that mentions this. The 704 is the 703 with an AC-3 RF output for DD added....they just added this to 703s, which became 704s, when AC-3 started to catch on. The early model 704s, probably within the first year, have it............but it was not in the later models. You will not find mention of this anywhere as Elite dealers were already screaming enough that between the Elite and Pioneer models there were very few differences at the time. Legato was supposed to be Elite only.......heaven help Elite if people thought(or knew) that there was little, if any, difference between normal Pioneer and Elite. There is a laserdisc archive UK web site that has a list of all the LD manufacturers and models. The 704 review on this site by one of the HT mags mentioned that when they tested the audio, they noticed it had the Legato. HOWEVER, they also mention it made little, if any, difference in the sound.....they actually seemed to prefer the sound if Legato would not have been in the 704. Hope this answers some of your questions... [​IMG]
     
  3. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    I think I remember something about how the Legato Link (thing) roles off the frequency response above (or near) 20kHz?
    Based on a review of a receiver (?) with it I read once, it did not sound like a good thing.
    Q: I have a DV-05 with it too. But my understanding is, that the Legato Link is only active if you use the D/A converters in the player itself, not if you're connected digitally to a pre amp. Does anyone know?
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  4. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    The Legato Link actually did not roll off anywhere, it added information above 20kHz. This was supposedly not random but an extrapolation from the original CD. Since you can't hear it, it shouldn't make a difference. I share Corbin's understanding that it was only the early 704s that got the LL DAC.
    My CLD-99 has the LL DAC and it sounde very nice to my ears, though the Onkyo Integra DAC in my receiver sounds more controlled in the bass regions.
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    Philip Hamm
    AIM: PhilBiker
     
  5. Rachael B

    Rachael B Producer

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    Good answers guys! Corbin and I have many little chats. Kevin is exactly right, if you use the 704's digital outputs you would bypass the Legato anyway, assuming your unit was so equiped. I can't even remember anymore where I found this out. I didn't know they ever removed Legato....It's amazing how much collective knowledge floats on this forum! Best wishes!
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    Rachael, the big disc cat! Remember, actual mileage may vary....
    AFI Film Challenge, hey I've only got 3 to go!
     
  6. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Phil- I distinctly remember that there is a roll off. It was specifically mentioned in the review. But like you said, the intended effect is to *add* frequencies above 22.5 kHz (actually). Sort of like harmonics and stuff from what I remember. To make the sound more analog-like. (Again, from what I remember.)
    I wonder if Pioneer has any Legato links on their web site?
    OK, here's an interesting blurb. The review that I saw was either in Audio magazine or Stereo Review, late 90's, when both magazines did all the measurements. (It may have been when the DV-09 1st came out.)
    http://www.audioweb.com/Forum/ForumM...id=134&msgid=1
    And then here's a really bizarre one!
    http://home.enter.vg/tensive/kevorki...revisited.html
    Here's some Pioneer verbage:
    Hi-bit Legato Link Conversion
    The "Hi-bit Legato Link Conversion" technology applied in the PDR-D7 combines Pioneer developed bit expansion technology with Legato Link for still better musical reproduction. In process of recording and mastering a CD, lower-level signals --- signals lower than least significant bit of a CD's 16-bit system --- are removed. But, the absence of low-level signals causes quantization noise, resulting in a stepped waveform of converted analog signals --- proof that reproduced sound is quite unlike the original. "Hi-bit Legato Link Conversion" restores the lost signals by computing the original waveform from 16-bit data stored on the CD and performing re-quantization in expanded 20-bit data form. This conversion process results in a waveform that is both smoother and closer to the original than conventional technology allows. And Legato Link provides the additional benefit of extending the frequency response to 20kHz to ensure more accurate sound reproduction.
    Confirmed! Here's an excerpt from the Secrets of Home Theater site (www.hometheaterhifi.com) for the DV-09:
    The audio frequency response of the DV09 from 20 Hz up to 4 kHz was excellent - flat as anyone could reasonably ask. Above 4 kHz, the frequency response was terrible. Compared to the DV-05, the DV-09 did have more output at 20 kHz, down only –0.15 dB. However, there’s a sharp dip in the response at 10 kHz, where output is at -0.8 dB. Compared to the cheaper DV05, because the dip is in a range more audible to the human ear, the aberration may likely be more audible as well. If we recall correctly, this model was THX-Ultra certified, and used a questionable digital filter that Pioneer markets as Legato link. Not a favorable indication for either.
    And here's the DV-05:
    The frequency response from the bass to the upper midrange was excellent, ruler flat down to 20 Hz. The high frequency roll-off had a nice, smooth shape, but fell off the –1 dB limit of the chart before it hit 20 kHz. That’s not to say that the player can’t output at 20 kHz. It’s probably, judging by the slope, -3 dB down by then, which would be considered reasonable for a loudspeaker. For a modern piece of electronics, though, I think it a bit questionable. If you had a player, a preamp, and an amplifier that were all –3 dB in response at 20 kHz, by the time the signal got to the loudspeaker, you’d be looking at –9 dB, which is completely unacceptable, in our opinion.
    They have graphs at the site (under master index and video players).
    The conclusion? Use the digital outputs!
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  7. Andy W

    Andy W Stunt Coordinator

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    Thank you all very much for your responses – very informative and helpful. Thank you.
     

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