Question for die hard hockey fans only (non-NHL related)

Discussion in 'After Hours Lounge (Off Topic)' started by Jeff Gatie, Jan 19, 2005.

  1. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    I have a question for die hard hockey fans, preferably those that know the role of fighting in this traditionally self-policed sport.

    The scenario - I have a 17 year old nephew that plays for a local Junior B and Junior Minor (aka Midgets) team. He's a good stay at home defenseman who overcomes his weaknesses with a huge heart and a willingness to drop the gloves. Fighting is allowed in his Junior B games (5 min major only). He will take on all comers to protect his teammates and himself, knows his role and is very good at it - at least enough to have gotten a reputation (leads the league in PIMS and no one calls him out anymore). His Junior B games actually outdraw the Junior A games due to a huge following for him and his fellow tough guy and the antics they get into. Over the weekend, he was playing a Junior Minor team in Long Island (his fellow tough guy was at another tournament). Being there is no fighting in Junior Minor, everyone on the ice, tough guy or not, was 10 ft. tall and bulletproof and hacking, slashing and crosschecking to their heart's delight. The ref let everything go. My nephew, no stranger to dropping the gloves (and taking a 1 game suspension) in a Minor game, blasted his teammates between periods because they were all taking liberties, yet when the feces hit the fan, he'd be the one to be taking punches to the head and a game suspension for someone else's inability to stand up for themselves. He vowed to only protect himself and his goalie from now on. Cut to 1 minute left. An opposing forward runs his goalie and the goaltender sticks him. The forward then gets his clock cleaned by the defenseman. The play moves down the other end and there is a whistle and line change in progress. After getting up, the opposing player challenges the goalie, drops his gloves and jumps him. The goalie gets in a couple shots and bloodies the kid, but by then (you guessed it) my nephew was off the bench and over the boards with 2 guys following. He proceeded to fight 3 guys after knocking out the original antagonist, his only help being the two guys who followed trying to find a dance partner. The other 10 guys (line change, remember) from his team leaned on their sticks with their gloves on.

    So, my question for you die hards:

    Did my nephew do the right thing (leaving the bench is a no no and can get you suspended for a year, but the ref didn't write it up as that due to the line change and being sympathetic)?

    Are the other guys on his team lacking in dedication or guts for having their gloves and sticks on/in their hands instead of taking 2 of the 3 guys my nephew had to fight out of the play (the last one happened when he was tired, tied up and tackled by the linesman and the opposing player proceeded to bounce his head off the ice a few times)? In other words, could they have at least grabbed someone and hung on, or are they right in staying out of the fray, even if your goalie is at risk and the tough guy is out numbered?

    Please, no "fighting is unnecessary" posts, I don't want that discussion. Just let me know what you think (as hockey fans) about my questions.
     
  2. NickSo

    NickSo Producer

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    Some players are the enforcers, some are not.. unless there is pretty much an all-out brawl between the two teams (which gets interesting if the goalies from opposing sides decide to drop their gloves too [​IMG] ), I dont think you can expect all the players on the team to drop the gloves along with your nephew.
     
  3. brentl

    brentl Cinematographer

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    First of all the Refs should have stopped it after the first fight.

    Secondly, If the goalie had already dropped the gloves and was fighting you Nephew never should have jumped the boards. He is there to protect the goalie, and stand up for him. If the goalie decides to stand up for himself oh well his choice.

    Thirdly, His teamates that were on the ice should have tied up the opposing teams players so he didn't get in multiple fights.

    I'm afraid that he should be ready for his team to take a step back after his tyrade(sp?) in the dressing room. It's the coaches job to get his team to deal with being manhandled not his.

    Brent
     
  4. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    It was not a tirade, he's really a quiet kid and he was quiet in his explanation. He just wanted them to know that he was sick of taking all the lumps for guys that ran around sticking people. As far as the coach is concerned, well, let's just say he is not concerned and leave it at that.
     
  5. brentl

    brentl Cinematographer

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    "Uhhm, I did say he was good at his job. No linesman making $25 a game wants to jump into one of his melees. They just let them punch it out, then another jumped in, and another."

    It's the refs JOB, regardless of the $25 a game thing. If your son were to get injured the ref may be held liable. He has to TRY to stop the fighting.

    "The goalie landed his punches long after he jumped the boards. He jumped over as the other guy dropped his gloves. He said the first thing in his head was "Oh shit, I jumped the boards to protect a guy that didn't need it"."

    In reality one of the other 5 players ON THE ICE should have dealt with the other players.

    "He just wanted them to know that he was sick of taking all the lumps for guys that ran around sticking people."

    If his other teammates don't have the balls to stick up for themselves then I understand his point of view. Midget hockey is VERY aggressive and the "other boys" should expect to throw their weight around once they got to that level.

    " As far as the coach is concerned, well, let's just say he is not concerned and leave it at that. "

    The guy shouldn't be coaching IMHO(remember when we used to do this ALL the time??[​IMG])

    Brent
     
  6. brentl

    brentl Cinematographer

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    Sorry, I reread and figured out that HIS players were the hackers and slashers SORRY I misread.

    He should explain that he won't stand up for dirty players, but if they don't get called for a penalty what do you do them?

    B rent
     
  7. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    It was really both sides, but he tried to calm it down because he knew where it was heading. He was correct.
     
  8. Christ Reynolds

    Christ Reynolds Producer

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    while your nephew did the right thing, it seemed he was very lucky about the 'leaving the bench' scenario.
    not exactly how junior hockey operated [​IMG] my dad used to be the coach for the locak high school hockey team before i was in high school (we beat catholoc memorial when they were ranked #1 in the nation, for those who know who CM is). he also used to be a scout for a QMJHL team. other local coaches would come to him with players who wanted to pursue major junior hockey, and the first question he would ask back to them is "can he fight?" where does your nephew play, jeff?

    CJ
     
  9. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    Bay State Breakers out of Rockland. He's going to college on a football scholarship (D2 or D3) of some kind. He just loves hockey, especially the rough stuff. Funny you should mention the 'Q' (QMJHL). He's actually had scouts that have inquired about his ability (ability to play 2 shifts a game and sit for 10 in the box that is). Last team that asked about him was the Maine Maniacs. Don't think he'll forego a scholarship for that, though. It's a rough life and he would like to keep his teeth.
     
  10. Orlando

    Orlando Stunt Coordinator

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    Well as a goalie myself, I would truly appreciate a team mate like your nephew. But leaving the bench is a clear no-no in any league. The fact that he "has to" leave the bench says alot about the sad state of his team mates. As far as the comment about the goalie already fighting should elevate the other players from jumping in is wrong. First off it is already a lopsided fight cause as easy at it might look, it is extremely difficult to move in that equipment. So he was probably doing little more then fighting for his life and getting some of his own angry out. And despite that equipment it does still hurt sometimes and makes you mad if it was not because of good game play. And something else not mentioned is the unwritten rules of hockey which nobody seems to respect anymore. It is a known fact that anybody messes with your goalie it is every persons job on that team to do something about it. It is like protecting a little brother or even a mother. Somebody touchs them they die. SIMPLE! It would seem that only your nephew knows the code. If I were on that team and a fight breaks out involving me and more then one other player it is the responsiblity of everyone else on the ice to grab a partner. They don't have to fight just keep it fair and even. I would go back to the dressing room and start trashing some of my own players for lack of support and proceed to take your nephew out for a steak dinner. Team sports have more to it. There are reasons why a player like Tiki Barber gave everyone of his linemen a Plasma TV for Christmas. They take care of you you take care of them. (A chance to win) I would have a hard time playing for a team that won't protect me. I have one job stop the puck. If I'm also worried about keeping my head attached we will lose and so will every other goalie in the world. Bill Smith one of the best goalie's to ever protect himself would whack his own players if they weren't protecting him. And during practices was known to raise hell if you even got too close. If you know the goalie you should ask him his take on what happen. We goalies are usually left out of everything. Do your job, nobody knows you, make one mistake and everyone hates you. (Sorry if this was long. But this is a subject near and dear to my heart.)
     

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