Question for Denon 3802 owners with CS-Ultra/S1000 combo

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Bob Lee, Feb 8, 2002.

  1. Bob Lee

    Bob Lee Agent

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    For anyone who owns this combination, I'm curious to know how high you're able to crank up the volume on your 3802 before your Ultra bottoms out, in particular on the THX Phantom Menace intro. On my 3802 I have the subwoofer output set to -6 and the S1000 volume set to the max, and with those settings my Ultra will bottom out during TPM intro when the 3802's volume is raised to -10. Is this consistent with everyone else who has this setup? This is the only source material where I've been able to make the Ultra bottom out, at least at volume levels I can tolerate. OBTW, my DVD player is a Panasonic RP91.
     
  2. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Bob,

    One thing to remember is the subwoofer setting of the receiver is secondary to the calibration levels you have the subwoofer set at.

    Depending on the room,the location of the CS_U,the distance from the CS_U to the key seats(where you'll be calibrating from)...their can be wicked variations in the limits each CS_U is capable of.

    How have you calibrated the CS_U, how large is the room ,and what is the distance between the subwoofer and the seat that you take your SPL measurements from?

    Another key issue is if all speakers are set to small or large too,

    TV
     
  3. Steve Zimmerman

    Steve Zimmerman Second Unit

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    Bob, what do you mean when you say "Bottom out"? Are you saying the sub makes some sort of clap noise or simply that the clip light on the amp goes on? Normally the term "bottom out" means that the sub (not the amp) is being overdriven, doesn't it?

    I have a configuration nearly identical to yours and a *very* large HT room. I cannot get to full reference with one Ultra before the amp begins to clip--but the sub doesn't ever actually bottoms out. My experience is consistent with the Ultra documents that say that it can handle 500 Watts continuous and 1000 Watts peak power.

    --Steve
     
  4. Bob Lee

    Bob Lee Agent

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    Steve - Yes, I mean that the sub itself bottoms out and makes the clapping sound. I've actually never seen the clipping light on the amp come on, and since I have the receiver's sub output set to -6 (set with an Avia calibration) I have more than enough power driving my Ultra. As I said earlier, though, the only source material that causes my Ultra to bottom out is the TPM intro. I'm just curious to know if this is normal for others with a similar setup.
     
  5. Dan Steffen

    Dan Steffen Stunt Coordinator

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    Bob:

    Not exactly the same as you but I have:

    3802

    s700

    20-39cs

    I have calibrated my speakers with S&V Home theater tune-up so that they were about 75 dB at ~-20 (normal movie listening level). With this setting I have my sub at +7 through the receiver and the s700 all the way open.

    With this setting I can bottom out the sub at ~-10 with TPM THX intro
     
  6. Steve Zimmerman

    Steve Zimmerman Second Unit

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    Bob, I hate to pester with questions, but since the Ultra is reported to take 1000Watts, it seems odd to me that your sub would bottom out without even the clipping light flickering.

    Have you performed this test with all other speakers (other than the sub) turned off to make sure that the "clack" you're hearing is actually the sub?

    --Steve
     
  7. Geo

    Geo Stunt Coordinator

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    I have a simular setup:
    Denon 4802
    Citation 7.1 bridged (about [email protected]) powering a
    SVS CS Ultra
    Panasonic RP91
    I have the 4802 sub output calibrated at 0. With all the other speakers turned off. The Ultra bottoms out during the THX TPM intro with the volume of the 4802 set at 18. Just before that point the single Ultra's output is measuring (with correction applied to the RS meter readings) about 115-116dB at 3 meters.[​IMG]
    geo
     
  8. Bob Lee

    Bob Lee Agent

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    Geo - your results appear to be consistent with mine. Later today I'm going to take the same subwoofer db measurements as you and see if I'm in the same ballpark.

    Steve - I didn't turn off the other speakers to confirm that the clapping noise came from the sub, but I'm reasonably sure it's coming from the sub because if I raise/lower the receiver's sub output (and leave the other speakers' outputs alone) this changes the volume level at which the clapping sound occurs.

    Tom - My other speakers are all set to small, and my receiver's crossover is set to 80 hz. My assumption is that room size, distance from the sub, etc., have absolutely nothing to do with the point at which a subwoofer (or any speaker) physically bottoms out - am I off base here?
     
  9. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    >>>Tom - My other speakers are all set to small, and my receiver's crossover is set to 80 hz. My assumption is that room size, distance from the sub, etc., have absolutely nothing to do with the point at which a subwoofer (or any speaker) physically bottoms out - am I off base here?
     
  10. Steve Zimmerman

    Steve Zimmerman Second Unit

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    Tom,

    Clearly your point is correct. Obviously the amount of volume one sub is going to be able to generate is entirely dependent upon the room. You and Ron have both been VERY forthcoming about how much it takes to reach reference volume down low and have never tried to imply that a single sub will alway be sufficient in large rooms.

    So the fact that Bob's sub is bottoming out below reference volume doesn't suprise me. What does seem counterintuitive to me is that the clip light on his amp isn't flickering.

    --Steve
     
  11. Bob Lee

    Bob Lee Agent

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    Tom - I'm not sure why you choose to use volume level as an example to prove your point. In my way of thinking my question has nothing to do with measured volume. I have no problems whatsoever with the Ultra producing enough volume, as it clearly exceeds the M&K it replaced in terms of both volume and depth of sound. And as I indicated in my original post, I can crank the volume on my system to near painful levels and still not get the Ultra to bottom out, with the exception of the intro to TPM. Please don't interpret my comments as my being unhappy with my purchase; on the contrary, I've been exccedingly happy and have no regrets whatsoever.

    What I think you're saying, though, is that the sub's cone excursion *IS* in fact related to the surroundings in which it's placed. I can accept that to some degree, but it's still hard for me to understand why room size has a significant effect on something that I believe to be purely within the sub (maybe I'm just wrong in my belief here). For example, if I place my Ultra, or any sub for that matter, in the middle of an empty 3000 cubic ft. room and get it to bottom out when the receiver's volume knob is set to "x", it's hard to imagine it not bottoming out at "x" if I run the same test in a 2000 cubic ft. or 4000 cubic ft. room.
     
  12. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    >>>Tom - I'm not sure why you choose to use volume level as an example to prove your point. In my way of thinking my question has nothing to do with measured volume. I have no problems whatsoever with the Ultra producing enough volume, as it clearly exceeds the M&K it replaced in terms of both volume and depth of sound. And as I indicated in my original post, I can crank the volume on my system to near painful levels and still not get the Ultra to bottom out, with the exception of the intro to TPM. Please don't interpret my comments as my being unhappy with my purchase; on the contrary, I've been exccedingly happy and have no regrets whatsoever.

    What I think you're saying, though, is that the sub's cone excursion *IS* in fact related to the surroundings in which it's placed. I can accept that to some degree, but it's still hard for me to understand why room size has a significant effect on something that I believe to be purely within the sub (maybe I'm just wrong in my belief here). For example, if I place my Ultra, or any sub for that matter, in the middle of an empty 3000 cubic ft. room and get it to bottom out when the receiver's volume knob is set to "x", it's hard to imagine it not bottoming out at "x" if I run the same test in a 2000 cubic ft. or 4000 cubic ft. room.
     
  13. JohnMW

    JohnMW Second Unit

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    I have a 3802 w/ Dual 20-39CS+ & Samson 1000. My Samson is at 0db and I have the sub level at -5 and calibrated the system with Avia @ 85db. I run the sub @ 88db. When I set the receiver to 00 during the Pod race, I almost start seeing the clip light. When I run the sub at -3 on the receiver, it will clip.

    * I just watched the TPM THX intro @ -10db on the 3802 and the subs barely clip (nasty noise that sounds like a fart), and the clip light on the Samson flickers during the initial loud thunder part. I am not sure if they are bottoming out though. How do you tell?
     

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