Question for Def Tech BP owners, or any other Bi-Polar owner?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by LowellG, Jan 20, 2003.

  1. LowellG

    LowellG Stunt Coordinator

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    I currently have Def Tech SM350s which I run in a phantom center mode. It sounds pretty good. I am thinking of upgrading, (I hate this hobby), to BP2006s.

    My questions are, one, is/has anybody ran the BPs in a phantom center mode, and how does it sound? Two, how do the 250W subs perform in a 11'x13' room? Do you really need an extra sub? I, (WAF), want a nice clean appearance.

    Thanks, Lowell
     
  2. Marco Flores

    Marco Flores Auditioning

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    OT - Curious to hear your opinion of the 350's - I've been looking at the 350 with a sub as opposed to the 2006 w/o a sub because of the WAF. I've auditioned the 2006s and they do well w/o a sub, although they sound incredible with a sub. I'm on the fence looking at the 206, clr 2003, bpx2 setup and comparing it to the 350s, clr 2002 an the bp1.2x and sub. What is your set up like.
     
  3. LowellG

    LowellG Stunt Coordinator

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    I really like the SM350s. They have very clear detailed sound and carry a good amount of bass for their size. I am only using a cheap 60W Aiwa sub with them now. I have them set to large and bass set to both. The bass is decent, but I know it can be better. They also image very well, I have them setting about 7' apart and they do a good phantom center. I have a Yamaha RX-V530 powering them. I am sure with a more powerful receiver they would sound even better.

    I am still on the fence with the sat/sub combo versus the towers or the PM500/700s. I know the bigger the box, the deeper the sound on a subwoofer. (Bad for the WAF.) I know there are exceptions to that rule, but I don't want to spend a mint either. I have considered the Baby Boomer or Def Techs Super Cubes, but again, the money. My Def Tech dealer runs a special once a year. Buy one speaker, get one half off. So it's better to buy things in pairs then one expensive sub. I still don't know. I think about getting the 10" Titanic Sub Kit at Parts Express for $350 and call it good enough. I am tired about worrying if this is good enough.

    One of the other reasons I am also looking at the 2006s and the PM500 is the center channel and surrounds. I like the size of the matching 2300 and PM80 are all that will work for my surrounds due to my side walls, or lack there of on one side. I figure if I have to go with the 4.5 woofer for center and surrounds, I may as well convert the mains.

    If you have more specific questions about the SM350s, just let me know.
     
  4. David Nash

    David Nash Agent

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    David
    I can't answer you question regarding a phantom center. However, I have two BP2004TL's with the 10" subs that are the model up from the 2006's. They are used in an 18' x 30' room. I think they provide plenty of bass, just ask the wife. Could they sound better with a stand alone sub? I'm sure they could, but I'm very pleased with their performance for now. I think in a 11' x 13' room the 2006's would do just fine. By the way, the nice clean appearance is exactly why we don't have a separate sub.
    Good Luck,
    David

    My system so far,
    Onkyo DS-TX797
    Sony DV-P530 DVD
    Hitachi 50" Ultravision
    Hitachi VCR
    Def Tech BP2004TL (fronts)
    Def Tech CLR2002 (Center)
    Def Tech BP2X (Surrounds)
     
  5. Mike Poindexter

    Mike Poindexter Stunt Coordinator

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    I think you will find that with the Def Tech powered towers, you really don't need a sub unless you have a gargantuan room. My friend has BP3000TL in a very open room and has no need for a sub. I have a different set of speakers, but they also have enough bass that I don't need a sub at all.
     
  6. LowellG

    LowellG Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for the replies. How do you hook up the tower subs? Do you split the signal coming out of your receiver then right into the sub LFE?
     
  7. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    Those speaker will sound fine in phantom mode,just like in stereo whaen they produce the center image[solo singer/intruments etc........].
    As for bass,that's depends what kind of bass you like.
    If you wan't to hear/feel all that is recorded,then you need a true sub.
    As for hook up,since you don't have a sub[do you?],I would hook the powered dection to the LFE output of the receiver[get a y splitter].Use the "small" setting on the mains.
     
  8. umit

    umit Extra

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    Lewis,

    what do you mean by saying -true sub-? I have BP2006TLs and I was thinking that i dont need extra sub.. Can you please explain what is the difference you find between powered towers and sat/sub combos?
     
  9. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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  10. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    I have to agree with Lewis.

    The woofers in my 2000tl's are turned off in favor of a single SVS sitting in the corner. It's not so much 'louder' as it is 'smoother'. It is a subtile thing that you have to A/B in the room to notice.

    I had to buy built-in subs for the WAF. Later I snuck in a SVS when I came into a bit of money and the wife was in a giving mood.


    Marco: The CLR2002 center speaker was the sole reason I bought DefTech. I disconnected all speakers except the center and heard detail from the Borg Battle of "Star Trek: First Contact" that entire sets did not reviel. Others have said the 2002 is superior to the more expensive 2000 center. I strongly recommend this center.

    Lowell: I'd strongly recommend just buying another Studio Monitor 350 and using it for a center. Haggle with your dealer and try and get 25% off the one speaker so he makes the same profit/you get the same deal. (Or buy 4 of them: 1 for the center and 3 for the 3 rear speakers.)

    While I love the bipolar towers, they are a very different beast than monopole & bookeshelf speakers. You have to pull these speakers ~3 feet into the room to take advantage of their bipolar nature. (The delay for the back-fire sound is what fools your ears into thinking the sound-source is several feet farther away. This gives you a large-room sound).

    Since you said you wanted a "nice clean appearance", bipolar towers may not be what you really want.

    And it has been said that "5 identical speakers" give a superior HT experience.

    Let's do the math:

    2006 Towers: $600 ea - $900/pair with your dealers discount

    Studio Monitors 350: $250 ea - $750 for 4 with discount

    For $900 you would have 'better' towers and no center (unless you use one of the Monitors as a center)

    For $750 you would have a identical 6-speaker set and $150 towards that external sub. - I feel this is a superior setup for movies.

    Hope this helps.
     
  11. LowellG

    LowellG Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for the advice Bob.
     
  12. Mike Poindexter

    Mike Poindexter Stunt Coordinator

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    I don't know the exact response on the BP-2006 or the 2000TL, but the 3000TL is 20Hz-20kHz +/-3db.

    Lewis is also right about location of subs vs. location of mains. Some higher end speakers are in dual towers per channel so that you can locate the woofers where they sound best and the mid/treble where they sound best. If you can score one of those systems, you will find that you won't really need a sub, but the subwoofer / traditional speaker is definitely a cheaper solution.
     
  13. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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  14. Marco Flores

    Marco Flores Auditioning

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    Def Tech tower owners : Do you need an external sub if you are using the BP2006 or the 2004. I'm considering the Def Techs and really want that impact you get from a sub and am concerned the towers don't provide it. I've auditioned them and they sounded good without the sub but really good with. I have a 15 x 15 room. If I don't go with the towers then I would be inclined to go bookshelf with a sub like the 350 system or a different brand.
     
  15. Dale Ridgeway

    Dale Ridgeway Stunt Coordinator

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    just a quick suggestion. Why not go with the non powered def -tecs instead( BP 8, BP 10), and get your bass from from an SVS sub. Its a simple matter of phsyics and def tecs's slim profile doesnt exactly make for a bottom trolling bass monster. I love their smooth treble and midrange though. I dont think my prosub 200 can match even an entry level SVS. Although I could be wrong.
     
  16. Mike Poindexter

    Mike Poindexter Stunt Coordinator

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    Lewis,

    I spoke with Def Tech on the phone about their BP3000TL. They have it listed as 13Hz-30kHz, but without a +-db after it. They are hesitant to list it with that because of whatever reason they give (it is different depending on the room) and I asked for specs in an anechoic chamber. I was told almost nobody's room is anechoic. They really don't want to give out the specs. He finally said that in an anechoic chamber, the BP3000TL is 20Hz-20kHz +/-3db.

    The reason I called is that their based on their stats and doing the math, they should be able to put out more bass than my IRS V. There is no way they can even put out the volume or depth my IRS will, so I was suspicious of their 13Hz claim.
     
  17. Keir H

    Keir H Second Unit

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    Yes, Marco, go with what's been rec'd on on this thread. BP 30's, 10's or even the new power monitors will be a better option IMO to the one's with built in subs..but YMMV in your room. To save money and apply your savings to a SVS or HSU ect..would be more advantageous. Many threads on this topic you can get info from too on this forum. SO if you want to get to the nether regions of bass on todays many dvd's you'll almost HAVE to get an external sub to get more output with less distortion. Good luck! [​IMG]
     

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