Question about crossover frequency setting on Onkyo 6.1 TX-SR501 and JBL Speakers!!!

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Marco_Chicago, Dec 23, 2003.

  1. Marco_Chicago

    Marco_Chicago Auditioning

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    What should I set the crossover frequency to? This is what it says in the Onkyo product manual...

    Frequency:.....................Front Speaker Diameter:
    60hz...........................Larger than 8 inch
    80hz...........................6 1/2-8 inch
    100hz(default).................5 1/4-6 1/2 inch
    120hz..........................3 1/2- 5 1/4 inch
    150hz..........................Less than 3 1/2 inch

    I am Using the NSP1II Speaker Package (consists of 4 N24's and 1 N-Center) without a sub yet. Here is what the manual says on the JBL NSP1II...

    N24's(surrounds and fronts)(4 inch woofer)
    Frequency Response (-3db)
    75hz-25khz

    N-Center(center)(4 inch woofer)
    Frequency Response (-3db)
    80hz-20khz

    I am confused because I am not sure whether to to keep the default setting (100hz) or change it.
    What exactly does the crossover frequency do and can I cause any damage by changing it? At what setting would my speakers sound the best at? Or should I just leave it at the default setting?

    I am getting my dayton powered 10" sub tomorrow and how should the crossover on there be set after I set the one on the receiver. I'm thinking of leaving the crossover on the receiver at 100hz since 80hz might be to low for the 4 inch woofer. So if I were to stick with the 100hz setting on the receiver where should the sub be set at?

    Thanks
     
  2. Richard Favreau

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    Based on the speaker specs looks like 100hz should be about right for the jbl package. Switch between 80 and 100 to see which you prefer. If possible place sub between mains as 100hz can be directional. Suggest you use the crossover on your receiver while defeating the setting on your sub by turning it all the way, effectively getting it out of the way.

    Hope this helps

    Rick Favreau
     
  3. Marco_Chicago

    Marco_Chicago Auditioning

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    Ok here are the specs on the Dayton sub from partsexpress of the website...

    "This powered sub features a down firing, front ported bass reflex design to produce deep clean bass. It utilizes a 10" long throw driver and a flared port to help reduce port noise. The 100W amplifier features gold plated high and low level inputs/outputs, phase reversal switch, volume control, auto on/off (activated by input signal), and a 12 dB electronic low pass filter that is continuously variable from 40 to 160 Hz. It also features a 6dB high pass filter (125 Hz, 8 ohm) output for satellite speakers."

    So if I have my receiver set to 100hz how should the subwoofer crossover be set? You said to max it out, would this mean to 160hz? Also what does the high pass/low pass filter mean and where should that be? It says high pass should be use for satellite speakers, would you consider the N24II's in that category? One final question...What does the phase switch do and where should that be set normally?

    Thanks...trying to learn
     
  4. John S

    John S Producer

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    80hz, is where I would put it.

    Higher is hard on the sub, lower is hard on the speakers.

    In this case, I think the sub will benefit most from being relieved of the 80hz to 100hz content.
     
  5. Richard Favreau

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    Set to low pass, dial at 160. Set crossover on receiver. I would experiment between 80 and 100. On my own jbl system (s38 + s26 + scenter +pb12) after experimenting I found I preferred the crossover 20hz above the speaker specs. See what you prefer.

    To my understanding there is no correct phase. Seems to be whatever is best to your ears, in your own environment. To be honest I don't hear much of a difference. Also experiment (as much as possible) with your sub placement. The change can be quite dramatic.

    Above all have fun

    Rick Favreau
     
  6. Phil Iturralde

    Phil Iturralde Screenwriter

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    NOTE: Both the JBL N24 & N-Center Objective Benchmarked using Tom Nousaine Sound & Vision Standard HT Procedures, ... to have usable lower frequency extending down to 89 Hz.

    Frequency Response
    N-24 front left/right... 89 Hz to 18.9 kHz ±2.7 dB
    N-Center................ 89 Hz to 20 kHz ±5.5 dB
    N-24 surround........... 89 Hz to 18.4 kHz ±3.2 dB

    Excellent results for a bookshelf/satellite speaker**, but especially so for one w/4" speaker!

    So, I would recommend the same process that Richard Favreau recommended, ... experiment between 80 and 100 and choose what sounds better with the lower blend between your woofer and N24/N-Center!

    If you can, turn-off the Dayton sub x-over, or if you can't, ... then dial it as far up as it can go and let your Onkyo handle the x-over chore! Having the Dayton sub's x-over close to the AV Receiver's x-over, ... will impact the x-over point by another -10 dB or more, ... verified by Home Theater Magazine a few years ago by Brent Butterworth.

    **NOTE: For comparision, check out these popular speakers test using the same Process by Tom Nousaine @ S&V ...

    Acoustic Research HC6 Frequency Response
    Sound & Vision FEB/MAR 2002
    HC6 front left/right... 125 Hz to 20 kHz ±5.1 dB
    HC6 center............. 110 Hz to 20 kHz ±4.2 dB
    HC6 surround........... 125 Hz to 20 kHz ±4.9 dB

    Energy Take 5.2 Frequency Response
    Take 2.2 front left/right... 110 Hz to 16.3 kHz ±4.5 dB
    Take 1.2 center............. 110 Hz to 17.4 kHz ±4.5 dB
    Take 2.2 surround........... 110 Hz to 13.2 kHz ±3.2 dB

    Phil
     
  7. Marco_Chicago

    Marco_Chicago Auditioning

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    I want to THANK everyone for helping me with this "novice" question. The dial on the Dayton sub for "crossover frequency" goes from 40hz to 160hz. It says in the manual to normally have it set between 60-08hz so that it will not sound "muddy". If I do this though I will have a gap between the sub and speakers(set at 100hz). Are you guys saying to just set it all the way to right at 16ohz? Won't this make the sound more "muddy" like stated in the manual?

    Also there is a switch for phase on the Dayton sub. It says either 0 or 180. How should this be set and what exactly do this do?

    Thank you,
    Marco
     
  8. Richard Favreau

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    By setting the dayton crossover to 160 we are getting out of the way so the receiver crossover can do the work. Simply avoiding the signal being manipulated twice. Doing the same job the sub crossover would do, if you had a receiver with no sub controls. I do exactly the same thing with my PB12 and Outlaw receiver. It will in no way affect the sound of the sub. Experimentation with the crossover point, volume and position will determine the quality of the sound you get. As for the definition of phase I'll defer to one of the more technically able members of this fine forum. I can tell you I have read there is no corect setting. Just switch between the two (or rotate the dial if variable settings are possible) and see if you notice a position you prefer.

    Or you could say to hell with it and take a break to watch a movie on your new toys.

    Rick Favreau
     
  9. Marco_Chicago

    Marco_Chicago Auditioning

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    Rick, Phil, and John thanks for all the adivce, I appreciate the help. Although my system would be considered a "budget" setup by most on here I am trying to learn as much as I can. Due to my research on this site I was able to get a setup that cost the same as my old home theater in a box, but sounds 5x better and for that I have everyone here to thank. Sorry for asking so many questions but I want to learn and absorb as much knowledge as I can[​IMG] I also know that I cant expect you know what settings will sound the best without being in my actual house, but you guys have ALOT more experience than me. I plan to get a spl meter and the dvd calibration disc whenever I have some free time next weekend to help finalize my setup.

    As far as movies I have watched a ton in the past week. My local "mom and pop" video store rents dvd's for $1 on tuesday and $3 every other day for 5 days. (I HATE blockbuster and hollywood and altough there are about 4-5 within 5 minutes of me I never go there.[​IMG]
     

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