Question about Blu Ray surround.... (1 Viewer)

[fan4fan1]

New to HT, glad to find this resource. I have hooked up a system in my new theater consisting of a Yamaha RX-A3000 receiver, with front speakers (Klipschorns), surround speakers (Heresy's), a center channel (also a Heresy), and two Yamaha YST-SW800 subs. Everything works great. Now I am trying to utilize the rear-surround option and have connected a single Klipsch speaker at the rear-center of the room. Played the Watchmen blu ray and got no sound from this rear surround speaker. When I switched the Yamaha to 7-Channel Stereo the rear surround had sound so I know it's hooked up correctly. I see that the Watchmen blu ray is recorded in DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1....does this mean it will not output the rear mono channel under any circumstances when in surround mode? My confusion stems from a description of DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 I just read on Wikipedia, that it will supply a sixth mono channel for rear surround. I notice that many of my growing blu ray collection show 5.1 as a standard. I also Googled a list of 6.1 movies currently available and there weren't a lot. Is there any point to having a rear surround in your theater? Please give me some advice....and thanks in advance! John

 

[Al.Anderson]

As you've found out, there's not a lot of material mastered in other than 5.1. That's why we'll often say that it's not worth forcing a 7.1 system just to have it - say if you're trying to budget for speakers or your room doesn't readily accomodate rear speakers. (Not that those fit your description, just being complete.) What should happen when the material is less than the number of speakers is the receiver send the surround signals to the rear (and the surrounds). Why this isn't happening for you is not clear. If your system has an Audessey-like configuration feature, did you re-run it after adding the new speaker? And if no Audesssey, did you manually recalibrate (or just go into the config and turn on the rear speaker)? If you did one of those, then I'm wondering if the Yamaha has a mode that only sends out discrete channels (it purposely doesn't play channels that are not in the source material). I've not heard of that option, but it sounds reasonable. Also, although you didn't ask, it's not considered a good audio choice to have the 3 front speakers be from different manufacturers, or even different models within a manufacturer's line. The idea is to keep them timbre matched, so the tone sound stays consistent when it pans back and forth.

 

[David Willow]

John, Not to be nosy, but you have a nearly $2000 AVR and you are still using Yamaha subs and a mish mash of speakers???? I'm not dissing your setup (please don't get me wrong), but usually more money should be spent on subs and speakers and less on the receiver. To get 6.1 sound form 5.1 sources you need to use one of the DSPs that will matrix it for you (like Dolby EX). Check your manual for the appropriate choice.

 

[fan4fan1]

A mish-mash of speakers? And by the way, have you priced Klipschorns lately? They're currently over $8k a pair. The original Klipsch Heritage line has been the industry standard in hi-fi for decades. Paul Klipsch himself designed the original Heresy I (which I have three of in my set-up) to be the perfect center for his Klipschorns. Using a pair of Klipschorns with a Heresy center and Heresy surrounds is about as matched (timber or otherwise) as I'm likely to get. On the other hand, using a third K-Horn for a center (160 lbs + and designed for corner placement) wouldn't be do-able either. The Heritage speakers (K-Horns, LaScala's, Cornwalls, etc.) will outperform ANYTHING currently available no matter what criterion you choose to use. But thank you for your comments. As to the Yamaha subs, the YST-SW800 is a 1,000 watt powerhouse which I have used for years now. Please read the multiple reviews on Audio-Asylum. Klipsch does make fine theater subs for my needs but I already had the first Yamaha, was very pleased with it, and got a good price on a second mint unit recently. And using a Yamaha receiver seemed to make it a no-brainer to also use their statement sub of just a few years ago in my HT set-up. Again, thank you for your replies.

 

[fan4fan1]

Hey Al, thanks for your speedy reply. I addressed the "timbre-matching issue" you mentioned in a previous post. I am convinced that using the Heresy I's is a great match for my K-Horns. Haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary in the center channel matching my front mains. I am getting sound from the surrounds. Its the "rear-surround" speaker that isn't getting anything (at least while playing Watchmen yesterday). So I feel the Yamaha receiver is sending the proper information to the surrounds, I just assumed that something would be provided to the rear surround speaker as well. Am I to assume that if it's marked 5.1 it will not output to a rear-surround speaker? And BTW, the Yamaha receiver automatically selects the proper surround sound program, right? I have "The Nightmare Before Christmas" on blu-ray and I see that it is in 6.1 surround. I will give a spin this weekend and get back to you. I can't express my gratitude to anyone who takes a few minutes to repond to my post. Thank you, seriously! John

 

[David Willow]

John, See the second part of my previous reply. To get 6.1 sound from a 5.1 source, you need to use one of the DSP's made to do it. I know Dolby EX will and I'm betting there's others in the Yamaha (Cinema Surround?). And yes, I am familiar with all the accolades Klipsh has gotten over the years. I have nothing against them (FTR, I don't like the sound but that's my preference).

 

[gene c]

I don't think receivers automatically select the right surround sound program. They play what they are given. The first thing you need to do is to select the correct surround layer from the dvd/br disc menu. Most will default to 5.1 but many older releases will default to 2.0 stereo. I don't know what the few 7.1 discs do as I don't think I have any ( both my systems are 5.1's). I'm pretty sure if you select 5.1 then that's what your receiver will provide. No sound will be produced from the back-surrounds. Some receivers will over-lap Dolby ProLogic II, DTS Neo:6 and/or Logic7 on top of the 5.1 layer and create the 6th and 7th channels out of the 4th and 5th. Give that a try. I've always wanted to hear a pair of Klipsch Heresy's, among other vintage speakers. And even though Yamaha isn't known for subwoofers they have made some pretty good ones in the past. But most members around here really like the HSU, SVS, Epik, Lava, etc. subs that are often recommended.

 

[fan4fan1]

Fully horn loaded speakers are very different than conventional ported "box" speakers. I am trying to get true movie theater sound levels and maintain a high-end sound at the same time. I tried a few other combinations of more conventional loudspeakers but nothing is as incredible as the K-Horns I have now for HT. They are truly bullet-proof and knock my socks off. But I understand everybody has their own subjective taste and opinions (I myself find them too mid-rangy on music, I prefer my 25 year old KEF 107's for hi-fi). I just couldn't leave you with the opinion of them being a mismatch with the Yamaha receiver. ESPECIALLY on the price! So you're saying I can switch surround sound modes on the fly? I totally assumed that it was automatic. I know there is an endless pallette of "Halls" and "Opera Houses" and "Stadiums" to use but I would think using them would defeat the whole surround idea - right? Isn't using an effects mode ignoring the true surround encoded on the disc in favor of the new matrix? So I guess to sum it up: my question is toward the sound encoding listed on the back of the disc box. Other than "cheating" by using one of Yamaha's many digital effects programs, is there some way to make the disc output to that single rear surround speaker while still using the proper encoding that the receiver automatically selects? The way the manual reads, I assumed the rear-surround would automatically receive a mono feed of the left and right surround channel (to continue the spread of sound effect across the back of the room). I do have the rear-surround speaker configured in the menu options panel by the way. I think Al might have nailed it when he stated that 7.1 isn't worth all the hassle.

 

[fan4fan1]

Hey thanks Gene, Didn't even think to go into the menu of the blu-ray and select a preference. I have noticed that every blu ray I put in seems to automatically go to it's proper "scheme" (at least on the display). And I have seen the DTS: Neo 6 before, among others. It may well be a disc-by-disc type of thing. BTW, I'm 49 years old and haven't bought speakers in a looong time (other than these '88 K-Horns and Heresy's). Those new names you're quoting are I'm sure awesome in their own way. But take it from an almost old-timer: The old stuff still kicks ass! John

 

[Adam Gregorich]

Originally Posted by David Willow

John,

See the second part of my previous reply. To get 6.1 sound from a 5.1 source, you need to use one of the DSP's made to do it. I know Dolby EX will and I'm betting there's others in the Yamaha (Cinema Surround?).

And yes, I am familiar with all the accolades Klipsh has gotten over the years. I have nothing against them (FTR, I don't like the sound but that's my preference).

I have a Denon with 7.1. If I am playing back a 5.1 source it uses Dolby Pro Logic IIx Cinema to create the two back channels. In the menu of the Denon I can select off, Dolby PL IIx Music, Dolby PL IIx Cinema or DTS NEO:6 for 5.1 encodes. Its one of those set it and forget it things.