question about bass setting on my yamaha receiver

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Bill Adlhoch, Jun 12, 2002.

  1. Bill Adlhoch

    Bill Adlhoch Stunt Coordinator

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    I have a Rx-V3000
    After a year, i am still somewhat confused as to the whole "main/sub/both"
    setting in the menu system and could use some info /clarification.

    Here is my take :
    MAIN: ALL Bass and .1 LFE information is send to the main channels. This is used when you either have no sub,
    or use your subs filter (runs mains from receiver to sub 1st and then to speakers)

    Sub: ALL bass and .1LFE information is sent to the sub.

    Both: Bass and .1 Info is sent to both main speakers and subwoofer

    I DONT use main, so i am still torn between BOTH and SUB.

    When i am playing music or regular DSS shows there doesnt seem to be anything coming out of the sub in the "sub" position. It seems better in the both position. When i am playing a 5.1 (6.1) movie, there seems to be too much bass in the "both" setting and just right in the "sub " setting.

    While i know which settings seems to be right for me, I like to know WHY they are like they are.

    Can anyone explain in more detail than the owners manual what happens in the 3 different settings and which
    ones they use for which sources?
     
  2. Shawn C

    Shawn C Screenwriter

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    The MAIN/BOTH/SUB setting are really only for LFE channel information. (Dolby Digital/DTS .1)

    CD music and your DSS system do not carry an LFE track. (the .1 in 5.1)

    You are forgetting about the "SMALL/LARGE" main speaker settings. If you set your MAIN speakers to SMALL, anything below 90hz will be cut-off and sent to your subwoofer.

    If you have a subwoofer and some smaller main speakers, just set your main speakers at "SMALL". This will force anything lower than 90 HZ to be diverted to your subwoofer, regardless of what input format (DVD, CD, RADIO, DSS, whatever..although with a 5.1 soundtrack, you will get anything lower than 90hz AND the LFE track sent to your subwoofer)

    I would be against setting the "MAIN/SUB/BOTH" to "BOTH". This might make your lower frequencies sound a little wacky especially if you don't have the same drivers in your main speakers as your subwoofer.
     
  3. Bill Adlhoch

    Bill Adlhoch Stunt Coordinator

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    my main speakers are large and are set as large on the receiver

    the setting i am referring to is not JUST LFE, but BASS/LFE, so i do think it affects the Bass as well
     
  4. Martin Rendall

    Martin Rendall Screenwriter

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    From my experience, MAIN/SUB/BOTH, and the main SMALL/LARGE, and the source content all interact.

    I'll go over what I would expect given LARGE main speaker setting, and SMALL elsewhere.

    Bass set to MAIN: for all content, the sub won't be used. I think this includes the .1 channel. That is, it will get routed to the main speakers.

    Bass set to SUB: for 2.0 content, bass goes to main speakers only. For 5.1, the main speaker bass goes to the main speakers, and all other bass (center, surrounds, and .1) go to the sub.

    Bass set to BOTH: not really sure what's going on, except to say that when I tried it, I got way too much bass. If I had to guess, I'd say that for 2.0, bass goes to the mains and sub, and for 5.1, all bass from all channels goes to the mains and sub. I agree with the poster above; this is probably a bad choice.

    Also note that the DSP modes probably interract with bass management in weird and wonderful ways.

    My suggestion: keep it on SUB, calibrate, and forget about it.

    Martin.
     
  5. Bill Kane

    Bill Kane Screenwriter

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    I just lost a whole page of typing, bottom line is encouraging Bill to set his mains as SMALL as Shawn notes.
    Despite Yamaha manual's imprecise explanation, LARGE really means ALL bass frequencies are routed to the mains and bypass the Sub. In this context, "large" doesnt mean the physical size of the main speakers.
    Recapping, setting to SMALL relieves rcvr amp load from pumping out bass as the sub amp picks up the load, and allows the mains to sing more sweetly in the midranges without also contending with low bass.
    Many report that setting to BOTH for music and DSS -- especially if set LARGE -- makes bass sound boomy/muddy as mains and sub compete to fill the listening room, perhaps upsetting the low frequency reflection pattern.
    Bill, I'll be happy to email w/ you if you want more of my line of argument. I have floorstanders rated down to 38Hz but I set 'em SMALL.
    bill
     
  6. Cliff

    Cliff Stunt Coordinator

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    The "sub/main/both" setting is confusing as explained in the manual, but simple in concept. If you don't have a sub, or wish to feed your sub from the main preout, use the "main" setting. In effect, this means that there is no sub as far as the receiver and its bass management system is concerned.

    If you DO have a sub, use the "sub" or "both" setting. Most people will use "sub", regardless of whether any of their speakers is set to "small" (thus activating bass management and the 90 Hz crossover) or "large". The "both" setting is often misinterpreted but means this: when the main speakers are set to "large", bass from the main channels (i.e., frequencies in the main channels below 90 Hz) are sent to BOTH the main speakers AND the sub. This is handy in two circumstances where you have your main speakers set to "large": (1) you are playing two-channel stereo material (which does not have a LFE channel) and want to use the sub; (2) you are playing a DD 5.1 or DTS mix which, although includes a LFE channel, has a lot of low frequency material in the main channels which cannot be reproduced adequately by the "large" speakers.

    Purists would argue that the main speakers should be set to "small", anyway, so "both" should not be used under any circumstances. [Note that if the main speakers are set to "small", the "sub" setting allows bass (i.e., frequencies below 90 Hz) from the main channels to be sent to the sub, even when playing two-channel stereo.] But for those of us who prefer using "large" settings for our main speakers, the "both" setting provides a convenience for the two situations described above in the previous paragraph.

    I do not wish to argue the merits of "large" vs. "small" for the mains, center, and surrounds here, as this is fodder for a different thread. The explanation I have given you is based upon my experience with the RX-V1.

    Hope this helps.

    Cliff
     
  7. Wayne_T

    Wayne_T Stunt Coordinator

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    Bill Kane,
    I couldn't agree with you more on the small / large recommendation. I am using the RX-V3000 (as a pre-pro) with all speakers set to small and LFE/Bass to sub only with excellent results. When I first got the unit I had mains set to large and was running into the same problems as Bill. I got set straight on this by a famous Brian Florian thread over at AVS. I must admit it was a bit of a struggle to get me over the hump of calling my "large" speakers small. Too bad they hadn't used better nomenclature, like THX instead of small.

    Wayne
     
  8. Bill Kane

    Bill Kane Screenwriter

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    Cliff makes the best argument I've seen for setting main spkrs to "large" and he does it WITHOUT mentioning what spkrs he's running. Admirable restraint.
    Wayne, I must say, after reading the Brian Florian article I stopped thinking about bass management and just did it, set "small" that is. I think THIS is the one, and THIS POST at AVS Forum.
    bill
     
  9. Bill Adlhoch

    Bill Adlhoch Stunt Coordinator

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    bill kane said:I just lost a whole page of typing, bottom line is encouraging Bill to set his mains as SMALL as Shawn notes.



    sorry just not gonna happen

    i DO NOT subscribe to the "set everything to small theory"

    wayne: I dont have any "problem", was just looking for a clarification of what is really going on
     
  10. Bill Kane

    Bill Kane Screenwriter

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    Bill, I'm sorry that your thread ran away from your basic question and started to poke back at you. But we takes our chances on the net, yes?

    Seriously, good for you to stand by your set-up despite any conceived wisdom or concensus-think. But it sounded like you had a problem here:

     
  11. Bill Adlhoch

    Bill Adlhoch Stunt Coordinator

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    i actually disconnected my mains and did hear things oput of the sub, but very faintly

    maybe i need to adjust the subs volume when listening to 2 channel music, or maybe the music i was playing didnt have much bass (mamma mia soundtrack)

    no offense was taken, but i wanted to keep it on track and not get into a large small discussion outside the scope of my post
     
  12. Shawn C

    Shawn C Screenwriter

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    Hehe...If you want to throw a monkey wrench into things, get a pair of RP-3's from Klipsch (or any other tower with built-in powered subs).
    I can set my speakers either to LARGE or SMALL and it doesn't make one bit of difference! If I set them to small, the receiver handles the crossover at 90hz. If I set them to LARGE, the amp in my towers handles the cutoff at.....90Hz!
    Actually, I guess that makes it easier...I think [​IMG]
     

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