Queen overtake the Beatles as most successful albums act in UK history (1 Viewer)

[Colin Jacobson]

Some of it, sure. But much of the later-years Beatles sounds dated as well.

I don't knock later-years Beatles, though I remain convinced Sgt. Pepper's is arguably the most overrated album ever (and I LIKE it). I just don't like the general dismissals of early-years Beatles, as I think much of that material holds up best. You can find dated work in ALL Beatle periods, just as you can find plenty of classics across the years...

 

[Geremia P.]

I'm not quite sure what this means. When I listen to rock & roll from the early '60s I don't want or expect it to sound like anything else. IMHO, the best music is always the stuff that best defines the era and culture from which it came. We should agree to disagree, I guess.

 

[Nigel McN]

That doesn't seem just a tad skewed?

 

[Geremia P.]

Personally, I might (or might not) subtract a half star from With the Beatles and Beatles for Sale, but otherwise it's right on.

Here's how my tattered 1992 edition of the "Rolling Stone Album Guide" rates them:

Please Please Me -- 5 out of 5
With the Beatles -- 5
A Hard Day's Night -- 5
Beatles for Sale -- 5
Help! -- 4 1/2
Rubber Soul -- 5

And once again for comparison:

A Day At The Races -- 2 out of 5
Sheer Heart Attack -- 3
Live Killers -- 2
News Of The World -- 2 1/2
Jazz -- 2
Queen II -- 2 1/2
A Kind Of Magic -- 2
Innuendo -- 3

The Rolling Stone guide has always been guilty of playing favorites, so I would be curious if anyone has a different resource to quote that might change the balance of these ratings a bit.

 

[Carl Miller]

Judging by the definition being used, we can pretty much find dated material from any band that reflected its era either musically, lyrically or both.

Seems to me the more connected a band was or is to its era, the greater the risk of being tabbed as "dated". CSNY and Jefferson Airplane must sound even more dated than the Beatles.

If you follow this line of thought, then you could make a case that the least distinct music will stand the test of time best, because it will never seem dated. If a band writes about nothing, and plays generic garage rock for example, it won't ever sound dated.

This would make Jet a timeless rock and roll band, and the Beatles a group whose music sounds something like the way St. Elmo's Fire looks 20 years after it was originally made.

To me, the use of the term "dated" to describe the Beatle's music is like saying Casablanca isn't quite as good a movie as it used to be because it was set in 1941.

Seems to me the word "dated" doesn't really apply to music the same way it is often used to describe a movie that doesn't hold up well over time.

Going by the definition being used here, some of Queen's material is pretty dated as well. Another One Bites the Dust for example, with its disco beat and the kind of guitar work you'd find on a Chic album sounds pretty darn dated. The influence of the Disco era oozes out of that song. Bicycle Race with its "Jaws was never my scene and I don't like Star Wars" line, which probably leaves todays 15 year old wondering why Freddie even bothered to sing about it could certainly be tabbed as dated.

Are Bicycle Race and Another One Bites the Dust really dated, or do they just reflect the times at which they were made?

 

[FeisalK]

FWIW, IMHO A Day At The Races is underrated although YMMV

And while the rest of the world discovered Dire Straits because of Money For Nothing on Brothers their first 4 albums were very very good

 

[andrew markworthy]

You know why Sgt Pepper is the best album of all time? Because either it's named as top of the poll or the poll compilers feel obliged to say why it's not top. You don't see them rushing out to explain why e.g. Astral Weeks or Pet Sounds isn't top, do you? But they have to explain about Sgt Pepper. In other words, even if you reject SP, you are always aware of its importance, and there is *no* other album that has that effect.

The reason it's the most important is simple - it *established* the album as a pop medium. Of course there were pop albums before SP and arguably there have been better ones since (Abbey Road is my personal fave). There were also other recording artists who had made a plausible case for the pop album (as opposed to LP that had pop songs with little connecting theme on it). But Sgt Pepper was the first that really captured the imagination and acted as a galvanising force for the rest of pop. Arguably it hasn't always been to the good (e.g. although the key protagonists of prog rock are still worth listening to, there was a huge amount of pretentious crap foisted on us in the early 70s), but that isn't the point - the album changed pop, like it or loathe it. There is arguably only Krafwerk's Man Machine which approaches Sgt Pepper in breadth of influence.

 

[L. Anton Dencklau]

..
Edited by L. Anton Dencklau - 7/9/2009 at 09:40 am GMT

 

[Geremia P.]

Being a Gen-Xer, myself, I can't say. As for Nirvana, take away Smells Like Teen Spirit and Cobain's suicide and what's left? One great album, a few other good ones and a cultural legacy no greater or lesser than several of their contemporaries [The Pixies, Pavement, etc.].

In the end, where The Beatles rank on this list really doesn't matter to me, but I am a bit perplexed by Queen's #1 spot. Since evidence suggests that they weren't exactly great album artists, they probably wouldn't crack the top 10 (or 20?) if greatest hits compilations were taken out of the equation.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

Geez. . .seriously, gang, my original statement about the early Beatles stuff being dated wasn't really intended as a knock, just an offhand comment. But hey, anything for an interesting discussion!

Those lists of album ratings from AMG and Rolling Stone are just more evidence of the utter worthlessness of those sorts of lists from those kinds of sources (5 stars for almost every Beatles album and only 2 for A Day At The Races?!?!?!).

IMO, most rock critics have very little of substance to say about anything. Unless a review is very detailed, then it's meaningless to anyone who isn't familiar with the reviewer's personal tastes (*especially* when it comes to something as subjective as pop music).

Geremia, I would *not* base an exploration of Queen's music on those ridiculous lists. One of Queen's defining traits is an incredible stylistic variety across nearly all of their albums. I would try to sample a cross-section of tracks from as many of their discs as possible. (And yes, Carl, "Another One Bites The Dust" is absolutely a dated-sounding tune! But again, that doesn't mean it's not also a *good* song. I don't think "Bicylcle Race" sounds very dated though, even if it does mention period pop culture in the lyrics.)



Well, we certainly don't disagree about that, although I would say that Nirvana's cultural influence is higher than that of The Pixies or Pavement.

When Cobain died, I was in grad school at the U. Miami School of Music, and I found the comparisons of Cobain to John Lennon amongst people who were otherwise extremely knowledgable about music to be. . .disturbing. I think those sorts of comments have faded a bit since.

 

[AnthonyC]

Well, I think that in a "voice of a generation" way, Cobain is definitely comparable to Lennon. But in terms of music...not even close. I'm a fan of both, but when I need a Nirvana fix, it usually just takes a few songs from Nevermind, In Utero, or Unplugged and then I don't listen to them for weeks. I can't tell you how long Incesticide and Wishkah have been collecting dust on my shelf...


It's true that they were primarily singles artists, but 1984's The Works album (not a best-of even though the title may suggest it) lasted pretty long in the charts, and I'm sure that A Night at the Opera and some of their others didn't exactly drop off the chart too quickly.

 

[Robert Powers]

I would be curious to a larger list (such as a top 25 or higher). I wonder where such bands as "The Rolling Stones", "The Beach Boys", and "Aerosmsith" would fall.

Even though I like all ten bands listed I am a little surprised at the order of some. In my opinion the top 3 were no surprise.

 

[Anthony Hom]

Yes, where are the Rolling Stones in all this?

 

[Rob Gillespie]

And in anther recent poll Radiohead's OK Computer took this position.

I never got into the Beatles. Got a couple of albums but never been overly keen to be honest. I like some of the individual songs but overall they're not a favourite. Much prefer Queen.

 

[andrew markworthy]

They're not as hugely popular in the UK, believe it or not. The Stones always lost out to The Beatles, Aerosmith never really crossed over into pop over here (they were seen solely as a heavy metal band - the term is used slightly more broadly in the UK). The Beach Boys were seen as a niche act - some pretty tunes on the early singles, but souped-up cars and surfing aren't really common British interests (though believe it or not, there are places to surf in the UK - provided you have a nice warm wetsuit to wear). Although the critics rave over Pet Sounds most Brits couldn't give a fig about it. I've got to confess that for me, by the time the Beach Boys recorded Good Vibrations, they'd lost their youthful energy and just sounded pretentious. And I really don't like Good Vibrations - am I the only one who thinks it stops and starts too much? Personal opinion only, your mileage may differ and I respect that. But am I the only one with that personal reaction to their stuff?

 

[RichP]

No it didn't. The Spin magazine poll only listed the most important albums of the last 20 years.

 

[andrew markworthy]

Rich, there have been other UK polls in recent years where OK Computer was named no 1 of *all* pop albums (e.g. a poll organised by UK's Channel 4 a couple of years ago).

 

[FeisalK]

IMO poll results are irrelevant if the sample size and average age is unknown. I once saw a poll that resulted in I'm Not In Love being voted the best ever pop song, not that I'm complaining, but it could have been just as likely Achy Breaky Heart, or Macarena... and it would prove exactly nothing. No offence intended to either fans of country or latina music (I once saw Macarena being described as the Latin retribution for Achy Breaky heart, )

 

[RichP]

Oh well, sorry then. I guess some critics in the UK can be as vacuous as those in the states.

 

[Rob Gillespie]

Yeah, especially the ones who like rap.