Queen DVD-Audio "Night at the Opera" is encoded with DTS-ES! (1 Viewer)

[Michael_T]

I got the Queen DVD-Audio disc and was sampling the DVD-Audio 5.1 track as well as the 96/24 PCM stereo track, when I decided to see how the DTS track sounded. Much to my amazement my Sony DA5ES indicated that the DTS bitstream was encoded as 3/3 or 6.1.

Even though encoded with DTS-ES, it doesn't have the flag to set the receiver into 6.1 automatically, so I switched it on manually - and it, in fact, is encoded with discrete DTS-ES. Many vocals, and instrumental parts that were sent to the rear surrounds, were now being discretely sent to the center rear channel.

I didn't really listen extensively to the DTS-ES track, but it is something I will plan on doing - and comparing to the 5.1 DVD-Audio surround track.

The curious thing about this is that the fact that this is DTS-ES isn't mentioned at all on the packaging.

 

[KeithH]

Michael, can you access the 24/96 stereo track on your DVD-A10? It has been said by others that this track is on the DVD-Video layer. With Warner discs, the 'A10 defaults to the DVD-Audio layer, hence my question. If you can play the 24/96 track on the 'A10, have you tried doing so without the use of a TV? My copy of A Night at the Opera is on the way, and these issues are important to me. Thanks in advance.

 

[EricK]

AWESOME!! Can't wait to hear this 6.1 DTS-es and 96/24 to boot! SWEEEEEEEEEEEET

Eric.

NP: nada (everyone is sleeping)

 

[Michael_T]

Michael, can you access the 24/96 stereo track on your DVD-A10? It has been said by others that this track is on the DVD-Video layer. With Warner discs, the 'A10 defaults to the DVD-Audio layer, hence my question. If you can play the 24/96 track on the 'A10, have you tried doing so without the use of a TV? My copy of A Night at the Opera is on the way, and these issues are important to me. Thanks in advance.

Keith,

Yes I can access the 24/96 stereo track on the DVD-A10 - but as you indicated it is on a separate layer from the DVD-Audio track. I was having such a hard time initially accessing the tracks on this disc without a TV - I had to turn the TV on. This one looks like a disc that will require a TV to be able to easily switch audio tracks. Although, once playing the stereo 96/24 track (which will only output through the analog jacks - it is downsampled through the digital out) you can toggle the audio button to switch between 96/24 stereo and DTS 5.1 (6.1).

I don't know if you merely push play what the disc will default to since I used the TV the first time through.

One feature I did like - was that when playing the tracks the lyrics automatically come up on your TV screen. Unlike Warners, where you have to manually switch pages of lyrics to see all the lyrics - this disc automatically switches pages of lyrics within each song when it get to the appropriate lyric. So once it is playing, you don't have to touch the remote to switch stills of lyrics if you so choose to view them on your TV.

I am sorry to say though, that it appears that only Warners has gotten DVD-Audio right in that you can easily access different mixes on the discs with ease - and without a TV. The DTS discs are a bit more user UN-Friendly, as are the Capitol/EMI discs and the RYKO Mickey Hart disc (which defaults to stereo playback upon initial insertion of the disc, but it is not so easy to get to the surround mix - which is excellent for this kind of music on the Hart disc - without memorizing about 3-4 keystrokes, etc. on the remote. Even then I always seem to start playing the wrong cut first).

I am getting really upset at the fact that I need to use a TV at all to access DVD-Audio disc mixes - after getting so used to the ease at which you can switch between stereo and MCH on an SACD. That is the biggest negative against DVD-Audio - they still HAVE to keep the Video element as a major selling point. This might be nice for some people - but for me it is becoming a drag.

 

[Lin Park]

The nice thing about this disc is that you can select the audio mode you want from the menus. This is the first DVD-A disc in my collection that I have actually been able to listen to the DTS track because I own the RP-91. I'm guessing you'll be able to select any audio track you want without the use of a TV on the A10 as long as you know which group to select, but I have been wrong many times before.

The DTS track is nice but I am really surprised by others that are saying it sounds better than the 24/96 tracks.

Lin

 

[John Tillman]

I've been trying to sample my copy but it has been difficult due to family activities.

I think it defaults to the DVD-A 5.1 mix. Both the DVD-A & DTS mixes are very impressive.

This will be considered a reference disc. It is packed with several great sounding mixes, lyrics, original B.Rhapsody video, photos, etc.

Confusing to navigate? Yes, but it does deliver.

 

[Mike Broadman]

after getting so used to the ease at which you can switch between stereo and MCH on an SACD

Yeah, that's the one minor disadvantage of my all-format player- everything is screen menu driven, including SACD switching. So, I don't care if a DVD-A disc requires the TV, since I use it for everything anyway.

Is this disc out in B&M stores yet?

NP: John Coltrane, Complete Live at the Village Vanguard, disc 4, CD

 

[Michael_T]

Is this disc out in B&M stores yet?

Yes. I picked up my copy at Best Buy for $19.99.

I usually make my purchases at Compact Disc World in East Hanover, New Jersey - but they had already sold out of their 5 initial copies by the time I got to the store. They were also selling this disc for $19.99.

Since Compact Disc World was sold out, I walked RIGHT NEXT DOOR - to the East Hanover Best Buy and got my copy.

 

[KeithH]

Michael, thanks for the info. My copy should be coming from Digital Eyes either tomorrow or early next week. When it does, I will try it without the TV. I guess I'll press play with the tray open and then fiddle with some buttons to see what happens. Of course, if I hear anything in stereo, I will have to figure out if I am hearing the discrete 24/96 DVD-Video track or a folded down mix from the 5.1-channel DVD-Audio track. I'm sure I'll be using the TV on this disc. :frowning: I agree that having to use the TV on some discs is a drag, and I prefer SACD as a result.
By the way, the scrolling on-screen lyrics is very cool. I have always wished that Warner would do the same thing. I'm just waiting for DVD-Audio discs with one line of the lyrics at the bottom of the screen and a bouncing ball to follow along with the music.

 

[Micahel C]

By the way, the scrolling on-screen lyrics is very cool.

Keith, you'll be happy to know that the new Silverline release of Dishwalla:Opaline is set up the same way. As Silverline is set to begin releasing 5-6 dvd-a's every other week starting May 7th, this is a feature that I'm glad to see they've added.

 

[KeithH]

Micahel, thanks for the info. Does the Dishwalla disc have a discrete stereo track? I thought Silverline Records was going to only include a 5.1-channel DVD-Audio track. I hope that is not the case.

 

[Micahel C]

Keith,

The Dishwalla disc does indeed have a hi-rez stereo track which I think is a first for Silverline. However you have to remember that this was Dishwalla's new album and not something previously released. On my Pioneer, the main menu allows me to select either the MLP 5.1 track or the 96/24 stereo track. By using the group select search, the MLP 5.1 mix is group 1, 96/24 stereo mix is group 3, DD 5.1 is group 5 and then strangely, group 4 is a standard 44.1/16 stereo mix.

On the new Queen disc, something very strange. Using the top menu, you can select from the MLP 5.1 mix, 96/24 stereo mix or the 96/24 DTS mix. The MLP mix is group 1, but here's the strange part, both the 96/24 stereo mix and the 96/24 DTS mix are both on group 2. My fist thought was that I was listening to a downmix stereo version, but my Pioneer doesn't indicate that. Why they would master it this way is very strange. Group 3 is the Bohemian Rhapsody video.

In any case, they're both very well done. I also picked up the new Graham Nash disc and will check it out tomorrow.

 

[KeithH]

Micahel, thanks for the info. I might have to experiment with the Dishwall disc. It's interesting that a 16/44.1 stereo track was included. I wonder how it compares to the CD. I'm still waiting for my copy of the Queen disc. I can't wait to give it a listen.

 

[Harrison Shinn]

Some weirdness here. I got my disc last night and noticed something strange. After swictching my DVD-A player, the Technics A-10, to the DVD-Video Mode, and selecting the 96/24 DTS 5.1 mix, the display on my receiver, the Onkyo DSTX-989 (which has been upgraded with PL II, NEO and DTS-ES Discrete), indicates that there is an incoming DTS-ES Discrete signal (3/3.1), but the sound is muted! (Jeez, that was a run-on sentence!)
When I went into the Onkyo's Listening Mode set-up menu I noticed that the surround speakers had been disabled, so I switched it to ON and it disabled the DTS-ES and was able to listen to it in DTS-ES MATRIXED, but not discrete. It seemed that whenever I selected DTS-ES ON, the sound would mute. Strange, huh?
Anyway, I disagree in that the DTS mix sounds better than the MLP mix. I find the MLP mix much louder and clearer, the channel separations more distinct and the bass tighter and more pronounced...then again, I am routing the multi-channel connections from the Technics A10 through the OUTLAW ICBM-1, so bass management is not an issue here. The strange thing is that the DTS 96/24 track plays fine through the Pioneer DV-525 and Yamaha DSP-A1 I have in my bedroom.
Does it have anything to do with the DTS-ES decoder in my reciever? I don't know, but maybe in June, when I send my Onkyo for another upgrade for THX ULTRA 2 and DTS 96/24, the problem should be worked out.
Anyone else with the same equipment having similar problems?
Cheers!
Harry

 

[Michael_T]

the Onkyo DSTX-989 (which has been upgraded with PL II, NEO and DTS-ES Discrete), indicates that there is an incoming DTS-ES Discrete signal (3/3.1), but the sound is muted

I couldn't tell you why your receiver is doing this, but on my Sony DA5ES (where I have 6.1 decoding set to AUTO - which means if the correct 6.1 flag is on the software the receiver will automatically decode 6.1) it indicates that the dts bitstream is 3/3 (or 6.1) - just like your receiver. The Sony goes into 6.1 decoding automatically for about 1 second then reverts back to NORMAL SURROUND 5.1. I then can manually switch on the 6.1 decoding and the receiver will decode the DTS-ES stream correctly. Maybe the disc wasn't meant to be processed in discrete 6.1 - or maybe whoever authored the disc made a mistake and didn't set the flag for DTS-ES correctly.

One thing that really bugs me is when a DVD-Video, like "AI -Artificial Intelligence" is encoded correctly with DTS-ES and DD-EX, but doesn't tell you anywhere on the box, nor does it have the flags set to allow your receiver to automatically switch to 6.1 decoding. In my case, I have to either be told about or read about the fact that a 6.1 discrete soundtrack exists on the disc so I can set the receiver manually.

Luckily, I happen to be looking at the display on my Sony receiver and saw it indicate that a DTS 3/3 signal was present on the Queen DVD-A in DTS, so I manually set 6.1 decoding - and it worked!

 

[PatrickTy]

Hate to burst everyones bubble, but the Queen disc is NOT, repeat, NOT DTS-ES encoded... the decoders are simply confusing the dts 96/24 Extension stream with the ES Discrete stream... both 96/24 and ES use the same DTS+Extension bitstream. My DTS-ES receiver does not falsely activate... and the disc should NOT be played in ES Matrix.

Ty C.

 

[Lewis Besze]

My Outlaw 950 reckognise this falsly as well but it doesn't put any sound to the "rear center" speakers,yes it wasn't meant for this I agree.