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Discussion in 'TV on DVD and Blu-ray' started by Chris Bergmann, Dec 13, 2004.
Oh well what can we do. I'm still getting my copy later today.
Because, oh. . . I dont know, there's nothing wrong with season 1? Because some of a thing is better than none of a thing? Because warts and all Quantum Leap is a goddamed great show?
I guess I'm a glass half full guy. This half empty mentality is just perplexing. (of course with some people not only is the glass half empty, but someone smashed it on the floor and you've just slit your wrists with the shards).
Fine - dont buy season two if that's your bag. But why cut off your nose to spite your face?
DVDEmpire now has scans of both the front and the back of the boxset up and the music replacement is not mentioned.
I understand the frustration felt by fans of QL over this. This sort of thing has yet to happen to me with a favorite TV series (I am now really counting my blessings that "Battlestar Galactica" got a treatment from Universal that no other TV series is apt to ever get from them), but I have felt the same anger and frustration with movie titles, such as Fox screwing up by releasing the cut version of "One Million Years B.C." and leaving the Exit Music off the initial pressing of "Cleopatra" (and there are quite a few movies like "Sweet Charity" and "Guys And Dolls" that are still missing their Exit Music, while "Where Eagles Dare" is missing it's Intermission). The only difference is that this music replacement issue has to be more infuriating because unlike the examples I cite above which are the result of total ignorance most of the time, only a conscience decision can arise from music replacement in a TV episode.
If it was a second season episode, was the "Man Of La Mancha" oriented episode of QL left alone?
I'm glad someone also mentioned Northern Exposure replacing music as well as I had missed that mention in a Northern Exposure.
Quantum Leap and Northern Exposure were both going to be among my next couple purchases. Thanks to the people who pointed these changes out, so it hopefully will allow myself and other fans to make a decision on whether they want to spend their money on these degraded (my definition for editing/altering) sets.
I'll be using the money I had planned to buy these sets, to buy some other sets. But it really stinks as these two were among my favorite shows, so I was really excited when Season 1 sets were released. Loved those. Thrilled when they did well enough for future sets to be released.
But this flat out blows. I sort of expect Quantum Leap will make it to season 3, since the extensive music substitution in season 2 wasn't publicized very well, so there will be strong sales because most buyers will be unaware of the changes until AFTER they've got the sets. But I don't see Quantum Leap making it past season 3 now that fans no what to expect... frequent music substitution. Music was such a big part of this particular show, either connecting to the storyline, or setting the era.
The real shame is this type of garbage is likely going to deter some buyers from pre-ordering sets over the internet, and decrease week 1 sales at retailers until AFTER the sets have been screened, reviews posted, and such things are publicized.
I still have hopes for the UK version - the first season was released there last month so I guess season two will come in about four months.
Maybe the music rights in the UK are cheaper.
While I am as disappointed as anyone that the Northern Exposure music has been altered, I can honestly say that it did not affect my enjoyment of the series one bit (okay, maybe a little bit, but not enough that I would even think about not having this in my collection).
I think fans have to come to grips with what the alternatives are for these shows - either they won't be released at all, or the prices will be four times what they are now to cover licensing costs, and will only get worse. Either way, the fans lose out. Would you be willing to pay $400 for one season of a show if it was completely intact? I doubt it, and so do the studios. Even at $40-50 it is pushing the limits for most people, especially when many people who aren't that intimately familiar with the shows, or haven't seen them in ages, wouldn't even notice that the music had changed unless it was pointed out to them.
I can't really blame the artists for holding out for more money, that is their business, and if fans are going to pass on a show because that music isn't present, it only bolsters the argument to pay up or else. If, on the other hand, fans will support a show, even if it is compromised, then it may actually work in our favor in the future, since those holding out for higher payment will learn that the shows can be released without them, and that if they want to make anything off the DVD release, they need to be somewhat reasonable about it.
The message we send by boycotting releases due to missing music is that the music is worth whatever the artist demands, and if the studios give in, the cost of all these sets is going to skyrocket. Just something to consider.
As to what I would be willing to pay for this show to have it intact: I would gladly pay a price in the HBO or Star Trek category (I didn't buy Star Trek though because I have the 3 major series on UK videotapes so a double dip didn't seem right). I doubt a release with the music intact would cost as much as Jeff mentioned in his post. I do see his point though. But for me a line has to be drawn somewhere.
I think if we buy everything regardless of cuts and substitutions it just encourages the studios to get lazy and not even try in the future!
I've never seen an episode of Northern Exposure, so I don't know how pivotal the music was in that show. "Georgia On My Mind" was pivotal to Quantum Leap. It creates a bridge to the final episode, and the song has been tied in my mind to the scene here ever since I first saw it. I could maybe live unhappily with them replacing certain other background songs, but that one had to be there.
Interesting point. Ever since the mega "conferences" with the studios started, the site has seemed to scale back alot of the "outrage" and advocacy, with more of a willingness to defend the studios or brush off the changes.
It will be interesting to see how it evolves over the next year.
No, I think it's more an issue of facing the reality of what can and can't be expected for a DVD release. Fans expect the studios to go and do new transfers, dig up or create extras, license all the original music, and lavish attention on their favorite series. The studios have to work within budgets based on projected sales, release dates, target selling prices, and the cost of bringing a product to market. There are ALWAYS compromises to be made. If the music licensing pushes the release beyond its budget, then the project is either cancelled or the music gets replaced.
In the case of Northern Exposure, the original music was a HUGE part of that show's feel, but even without it, the show still works brilliantly. Sure. I'd love the original soundtrack, but I'm not about to sacrifice a great TV show because it's not there.
I expect that until the industry comes to grips with the licensing costs on both sides, that we will continue to see shows get replacement music. Should we be outraged? Well, if it means NEVER getting shows we loved released because of it, I think we're cutting off our noses to spite our faces, and if the sets sell well enough as released, who knows, maybe they will see a reason to renegotiate the deals and get the original music. But I wouldn't hold my breath.
I think my biggest problem with this is that Universal is charging an exorbitant price for these DVDs if they're not including the original music. When the first season of QL was released, it seemed that the justification was that the price was necessary to afford the music rights. But now it looks like future seasons of the show will lack that original music and also lack any special features. How, then, is Universal justifying the cost when you've got more and more dramas on DVD available for approx. $35 at their release?
I gotta jump in and say that I have been looking forward to this dvd series for a very long time. I watched the season 1 set more than I care to admit. When I read about the music change (in this thread) it was like getting sucker-punched. I wonder if this is the reason this set got pushed back. Part of me wants to believe that Universal tried to get the rights and maybe even pushed back the original October 26th release date to try and get the rights but then failed to do so. While I doubt this theory, it is something I wanted to throw out.
You imply that it is artists who are holding up music clearances. It is record companies that hold most of the recording copyrights -- the type of music monopolies that make life easiest for obstructionists.
Brad, I assumed something like the opposite, namely that the delay was due to Universal, having failed to secure the music rights, needing the time to replace it all.
Sam's sister: What about John Lennon?
Sam: He... he wrote my favourite song...
(Sam plays the opening chord on his guitar)
Sam: (dubbed) "Ding-Dong, the witch is dead! ..."
Dreadful news, but I can live with it to get my favourite ep (Catch a Falling Star; I just hope it's still a musical... ). Looks like my VHS QL collection will breathe a sigh of relief...
That's exactly what I was thinking. If they replace "Imagine" in that scene, they will absolutely destroy one of the most moving moments in the entire series (more so than the "Georgia" scene, in my opinion, at least).
I'm not sure that will be a problem, though. Aren't the clearances a little cheaper if it's not the original artists performing the song? Surely they wouldn't change the songs that Scott Bakula actually performed. Surely not.
Well if you want to get technical about it, it is the publishers whose job it is to get placement in TV shows in the first place, so they are the ones most likely holding out. By having the music they control replaced, the publishers are going to feel the heat, since they are costing their clients (the reord companies and artists)money.
I think music rights holders are just getting stupid. Companies are getting too greedy and others are suffering for it. Mainly the consumers. They are seeing a demand for TV shows on DVD and are obviously asking outragious amounts of money to secure the rights to songs in some of the shows as we have seen. And the companies that make the shows on DVDs won't put out the costs to secure the insane costs the music companies are asking. I tend to think that this cost ends up outbalancing what the DVD companies expect to get in sales and therefore like mensioned by someone else pushes the costs past the budget for the DVD set and ends up getting replaced rather than scrapping the project.
I am disapointed to hear that this has happened to one of my favorite parts of Quantum Leap. This along with the vietnam episodes and some of the other historical things of the series are some of the reasons I love this show. I really liked the addition of the emotional aspects of the show. I just hope that this is the only change. I think I can endure it but will be majorly disappointed as I believe when I first saw the episode the music was a key to emotionally moving me.
I also have this episode on VHS I think recorded within the last year off of sci-fi channel. I don't think the music was cut there. But I don't suppose they have to resecure rights for syndication so I think it is silly that they have to when putting the show on DVD. After all the show is still the show. Its not like they are using the song in another show not already filmed.
Out of curiousity older movies that came out before DVD technology did studios have to resecure rights to songs in those movies to put them out on DVD? If not why should TV shows be any different.
Ok so enough of me ranting as I'm sure some are tired of reading.
I thought that copyright law capped the degree to which they could hold out. That is, copyright law does not prohibit me from offering a publisher $100,000 per copy for the privilege of covering a song. But it does say that if the song has already been publically performed, I can legally make cover versions of the song by taking out a compulsory license at a fee set by statue (or Copyright Office, etc.). That fee would be something like 7 cents per copy.
The practical effects are twofold. First, the publishers can't pull stunts like selectively refusing to let people cover songs like "Amazing Grace" or "Hound Dog". Second, no record company ever pays more than the 7 cents a copy (or whatever the current rate is) to the publishers. If the publishers or artists go along with lower rates, the record company takes the lower rate. Otherwise the record company takes advantage of compulsory licensing.