Quality of Rush Remastered CDs? (1 Viewer)

[Brian Perry]

Hard to believe, but I think the best sounding Rush CD is Caress of Steel (and the album goes back some 25 years!).

 

[Zane Charron]

Hard to believe, but I think the best sounding Rush CD is Caress of Steel (and the album goes back some 25 years!).

I love the sound of COS, but I think I favor 70's recordings in general. I guess it's a matter of the equipment and instruments used in the studio at the time and the sound that the recording, mixing and mastering engineers give the record. When I listen the old Yes and Genesis recordings, they have a certain "organic" feel that you don't find on many recordings from the 80's onward. I'm sure it's the combo of mixing console, compressors, effects, tape machine, etc plus the instruments and people involved.

I mean, just listen to Chris Squire's bass sound on Fragile (1972) or Geddy Lee's bass sound on Moving Pictures (1981). Phenomonal. Big, fat, round, ORGANIC sounds. The drums have real presence and the vocals warmth. Even audiophile recordings from labels like Chesky, while awesome, don't have that particular sound that was acheived in the late 60's/early 80's. Gotta love tube equipment.

 

[Angelo.M]

Although there are still well-recorded albums nowadays, they are fewer and further between than the great stuff of 20 and 30 years ago.

 

[Mike Broadman]

Zane, I know what you mean. And I'm not speaking from a nostalgic point of view at all (I didn't exist yet when many of those albums were recorded). I even like the sound of mini-Moogs.

I think once the 80s hit, both engineers and artists jumped into the new technologies head first with mixed results. Many bands did not make the transition elegantly (ahem, Jethro Tull).

 

[Brian L]

I mean, just listen to Chris Squire's bass sound on Fragile (1972) or Geddy Lee's bass sound on Moving Pictures (1981).

I did, and I bought a Ric 4003 just because I thought (and still think) that was the biggest, baddest, ballsiest bass sound ever committed to tape. Sure wish I still had it:frowning:

Seeing Geddy switch to a Jazz bass was a major let down, even though he is still one of the finest players to ever mount a 4 string.

Putting all that aside, I tend to favor the view that the more tracks a given band has available in the studio, the more likely the result is going to be sonic mush. Not always, of course, but usually.

I personally though that the early Beatles had it about right; John and Paul over here, George over there, Ringo in the middle (or various combinations). Always worked for me, not to say that their later work didn't take advantage of better studio equipment.

Of the bands who's showed up in the late 80's/early 90's whose sound I really like, I would list Guns and Roses (the REAL band, not this thing that Axle is peddling) and Alice in Chains. I consider Use your Illusion I and II to be right up there in terms of what I think a hard rock band is supposed to sound like. AiC has always sounded good to me too.

Guitar, bass, drums, vocals. Who the hell needs 64 or more tracks?

BGL

 

[Angelo.M]

New question, Rush-related:

When Rush perform "Time Stand Still," do they use a taped female vocal, or a live voice?

Same question about the 'rap' section of "Roll the Bones." How is it done live?

 

[Jan H]

They use the tape loop of Amie Mann's voice on TSS, and I think they also use a recording of the rap part of RTB.

 

[Brian L]

Don't recall TSS on the Vapor Trails tour, but I would say for sure that the rap in Roll the Bones was a recording.

BGL

 

[Zane Charron]

All those kind of "effects" (Aimee Mann's voice and the Roll the Bones section, as well as others) are triggered, most likely by Geddy or Neil.

As far as the issue of the number of tracks needed for a stripped down band, it can run pretty high without even realizing it. I mean, imagine how many mics are required for Neil's kit alone (though his is often much larger than most). One for each kick drum, probably 4-6 on the toms, one for the snare, one for the hi-hat, maybe a couple for the cymbals, various blocks/cowbells/etc, and possibly a couple of overheads or room mikes. That's 15 mics easily, which would get mixed down to a stereo pair, so that's 2 more channels. If your double/triple/quadruple tracking guitars and mixing amp sounds (those big guitar sounds don't come easy), that's 4-8 channels with effects, bass and effects, vocals and vocal overdubs, guitar overdubs, any keyboard fillers and various other overdubs. It can add up to 30 or 40 tracks easily. And that's just for a relatively simple band setup. Now for a band like Yes...

Seeing Geddy switch to a Jazz bass was a major let down, even though he is still one of the finest players to ever mount a 4 string.

It's still better than the Steinberger...

 

[Angelo.M]

Thanks. I was listening to Different Stages yesterday and when the 'rap break' of "Roll the Bones" began I had this goofy image of the band just standing around as the tape played. It's been a long time since I've seen them live, obviously (not since Power Windows-era).

 

[Brian L]

It's still better than the Steinberger...

Man, you are so right! I have never played one, and they may in fact be God's Gift to Bass Players, but a bass or guitar without a headstock just ain't right!

BGL

 

[TheLongshot]

Thanks. I was listening to Different Stages yesterday and when the 'rap break' of "Roll the Bones" began I had this goofy image of the band just standing around as the tape played.

Well, there's still MUSIC being played during it, so it isn't like they are getting a rest...

Jason

 

[Rob Gillespie]

Seeing Geddy switch to a Jazz bass was a major let down

As an amateur bass player I find this statement a little puzzling. The Jazz was played on some of Lee's most memorable bass-lines and had a fantastic sound, especially on Moving Pictures.

When he switched to the Steinberger I found the bass sound became a bit flat and almost 'sterile'. When Power Windows came along, Geddy changed instruments again, this time to a Wal (except for the track Mystic Rythms) and the sound he got out of that was amazing. The bass break on Territories is still one one my all-time faves. The Wal was used again on Hold Your Fire (my fave Rush album of all), Presto and Roll The Bones, with his original black 4-string joined by a red model with a slightly larger body (it's actually the body used for the Wal 5-string) which gave a slightly different sound.

But on Counterparts he went back to Jazz and I think the bass tone achieved on that album is superb. Very organic again, like the old Moving Pictures days.

I love Wal basses - I used to own one - but Lee's return to the Jazz - and his reluctance to part with it since, seems to suggest there's something about that old beast he prefers.

 

[Brian L]

As an amateur bass player I find this statement a little puzzling. The Jazz was played on some of Lee's most memorable bass-lines and had a fantastic sound, especially on Moving Pictures.

Your knowledge of the band and their basses clearly appears to exceed mine, Rob.

It also appears that you are a late Rush kind of guy, while I would say that, while I like pretty much their entire catalog, I am an early Rush kind of guy. Not that there is anything wrong with any of that.

I always assumed that on Moving Pictures, Geddy used a Ric, based on the tone I was hearing, but will stand corrected. I guess I need to spend a bit more time with the liner notes, since he is photographed with a Jazz. But, in the "Thank You's" he also singles out Ric.

Perhaps I will ring him up and get the real scoop

I personally have no complaint with the sound of a Jazz, but my first love in terms of bass tone has always been a Ric.

My personal favorite Rush bass line is the bass solo on Free Will. Please do no tell me that this was also a Jazz......I will need to get therapy!

FWIW, I was perusing a guitar mag some months before Vapor Trails came out, and there was an ad for a bass preamp (the maker escapes me) which had a testimonial from Geddy. One of his comments was that he was very pleased with the prototype he had been using in the studio, and said it would also be useful live, since it allowed him to get some of the Ric tones for their earlier stuff.

When I read that, I thought, you're Geddy Lee. Why not just use a Ric for those songs? But I think you are right, in that his ax of choice is clearly a Jazz at the moment.

BGL

 

[Brian L]

OK Rob, now you did it!

I have Moving Pictures playing on the PC through some decent speakers.

I would say Tom Sawyer could be a Jazz. It doesn't seem to have the high end bite that a Ric has, particularly during the bass break before the guitar solo (I spent hours learning that part!).

But Red Barchetta, now thats a completely different story. If that is not a Ric, I will be surprised.

I won't bore you with my take on every cut, but I think a case can be made that he perhaps played both on Moving Pictures.

BGL

 

[Angelo.M]

Well, there's still MUSIC being played during it, so it isn't like they are getting a rest...

Hey, I was kidding. And if they were getting a rest, they'd deserve it by that point of the show...

 

[Rob Gillespie]

but I think a case can be made that he perhaps played both on Moving Pictures.

I think you're quite right Brian. I know he used both during the tours around that time so it's highly likely the two basses were used in the studio also.

 

[Rob Gillespie]

Woah, hang on a sec. I just found some info on this page. Not sure about it's authenticity, but it reads....

SIGNALS
The Rick 4001 was recorded on this album with the exception of "Losing It" which was the 4002,
and "Digital Man", which used the Fender Jazz

 

[Brian L]

Woah, hang on a sec. I just found some info on this page. Not sure about it's authenticity, but it reads....

After reading the equipment list, all I can say about my knowledge (or lack thereof) of Rush is, I AM NOT WORTHY, I AM NOT WORTHY, I AM NOT WORTHY......

Man, that page is an absolute treasure trove of info if you are a gear head!

I still prefer Ric's to Fenders though

BGL

 

[Brian Perry]

However, this may have changed for the tour. This is directly from the MP tourbook:

Equipment I will be using on the 'Moving Pictures' tour:
SYNTHESIZERS
Oberheim-- OB-1, OB-X, and OB-8, two sets of Taurus pedals, interfaced with the OB-8, Mini-Moog, Roland Digital Sequencer, assorted effects.
BASSES AND GUITARS
Two Rickenbacker 4001's, Fender Jazz Bass, Rickenbacker 4002, double-neck Rickenbacker, incorporating 4001 with twelve-string guitar, double-neck Rickenbacker, incorporating 4001 with six-string guitar, Ovation acoustic.
AMPLIFICATION
Two BGW 750B power amps, two Ashley preamps, two 2 x 15 Thiele-design cabinets fitted with EVM speakers, two V4B Ampeg cabinets with JBL speakers, Yamaha solid state guitar amp.
VOCAL MICROPHONE
Electrovoice DS-35.