Quality-control issues with Peter Gabriel SACDs? (1 Viewer)

[KeithH]

I picked up the Peter Gabriel Shaking The Tree -- 16 Golden Greats SACD today and everything was fine until I got to track 5, "Mercy Street". I noticed a slight skip at 1:54 (short click sound with a quick jump to 1:55), and then at about 2:15, the player skipped to track 9. Upon inspection of the disc, I noticed a divot at a spot that looked like it could have been through track 5. It is simply a manufacturing error. Has anyone seen such flaws on Peter Gabriel SACDs? Hopefully I will have no problems getting a good copy in exchange.

For the record, I was using a Sony SCD-C333ES that I bought brand new in April 2001. I've had no problems with it.

 

[Dan Joy]

No problems here other than I do not prefer the sound of the disc!

 

[KeithH]

Dan, thanks. Are you saying that you don't think the SACD is better than the remastered CD? I only have the remastered CD of So, so I can only do limited comparisons. Still, I was quite impressed with the sound of the Shaking the Tree SACD. Now if I can just get a copy that doesn't skip!

 

[Scott Merryfield]

My copy of Shaking The Tree played flawlessly on my Sony SCD-555ES. Also, I thought the disc sounded great.

 

[Dan Joy]

Dan, thanks. Are you saying that you don't think the SACD is better than the remastered CD? I only have the remastered CD of So, so I can only do limited comparisons.

Keith, I only have the original SO on cd which is harshly digital. Yes their are sonic improvements, but just not as earth shattering as I have heard with other discs. i want SACD to always be a huge step up, especially for big titles!

 

[Joe Casey]

Keith,
My copy of the disc plays fine. Sounds like you got a one-off defective disc. As to the sonics, I have most of the remasters as well as the SACD's (yeah, I'm a die-hard fan), and find the SACD's better than the remasters, but not as much as the remasters are better than the originals.

 

[Rich Malloy]

Mine plays just fine, too, Keith. And the SACDs are so much better than the original CD releases (not the remasters, which I haven't heard) that the original CDs should hang their dull little heads in abject shame and remorse for making us listen to those glarey tones, that congested midrange, and the pinched, two-dimensional excuse for a real soundstage for so long.

 

[Steve_AS]

My copy of the disc plays fine. Sounds like you got a one-off defective disc. As to the sonics, I have most of the remasters as well as the SACD's (yeah, I'm a die-hard fan), and find the SACD's better than the remasters, but not as much as the remasters are better than the originals.

On a related note -- I just ran a brief comparison of the PG II SACD to the remastered CD. By brief, I mean I played the opening few second of 'DIY' from each disc, sequentially, on a Pioneer DV-45a player, and compared readings on a sound level meter kept at the same position for both playbacks. The result? The CD was a dB or two louder than the SACD.

I don't know whether this reflects differences in processing of SACD vs CD in my player, or an inherent mastering difference. But I thought it was worth noting.

 

[Rich Malloy]

Steve, it definitely is worth noting... clearly not a real big issue here, but as you probably know the plague of CD mastering in the last ten years has been maximizing the levels beyond the dynamic range capabilities of CDs, resulting not only in the loss of dynamic range, but the distortion that comes from clipping all the notes that exceed the CD's peak level, as well as the associated compression. As I understand it from the more technically savvy members of this forum, the tools that allow the hamhanded and hearing retarded engineers to ruin so much music on CD have not yet been developed for SACD.

But, unfortunately, that is unlikely to remain true forever.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Has anyone read how the new PG DSD masters were made? God forbid, they may have simply translated the last PCM masters, maybe at 24/96? Remember, the new Steely Dan Gaucho SACD is actually taken from 24/96 PCM.

 

[KeithH]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I got a new copy of Shaking The Tree to day, and it plays perfectly.

As for the sound, I am largely impressed, but the tracks from So still sound harsh to my ears. That was my chief complaint with the remastered So CD. The SACD is better, but So is just not the greatest recording.

 

[KeithH]

Rich said:

the tools that allow the hamhanded and hearing retarded engineers to ruin so much music on CD

This is just one reason that I now collect first pressings of CDs from the early days of the format (i.e., 1982-1985). Aside from the fact that they are relatively difficult to find and that many of them look cool, they were transferred flat from the master tapes. As with SACD today, there were no tools available to ruin music in the digital domain in the early days of the CD.

 

[Rich Malloy]

Keith, I've started to do the same and I kick myself hard everytime I think of it for trading away some years back what I think in restrospect was probably the original, Hoffman-mastered CD issue of "Katy Lied".

And now that MFSL and DCC are no longer remastering the "classics", it's almost impossible to find a decently mastered CD. Even the Columbia Mastersound Gold discs don't sound right to me... my original "CBS" issue of "Wish You Were Here" sounds better than the mastersound issue.

I can't believe these "modern" masterings sound good to anyone, but they've most definitely ruined recorded music for anyone who cares even a little bit for sonic purity.

 

[Steve_AS]

I can't believe these "modern" masterings sound good to anyone, but they've most definitely ruined recorded music for anyone who cares even a little bit for sonic purity.

I have many 'modern' remasterings that I prefer the sound of, compared to their first CD issues. Including the PG reissues.

 

[KeithH]

Rich, I am only 33, so I wasn't buying West German and Japanese first pressings back in the day. I wish now that I had. It's tough to find those discs now, but they are out there between used stores and eBay.

Since this thread is about Peter Gabriel, here is a West German first pressing of Security on the Charisma label.

[c]http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/at...&postid=208048[/c]

This disc was made in West Germany for the European market. Cool, eh?

As for current mastering techniques, I have a number of discs that sound great. Of course, I have a number that sound horrid too. It's not just the mastering. It's also the original recording process. :frowning: