Pyramid Schemes: still alive!? (1 Viewer)

[Moe Maishlish]

I just listened to the MP3 of the conversation between the lawyer & the site Admin. Damn! I wonder what's going to end up happening.

I've got my own story about Quixtar that I'll relate later on. Needless to say, I smelled something rotten shortly after becoming acquainted with the "business model", and bailed on the entire idea.

Moe.

 

[ChrisArmour]

Absolutely please share your story, people need to hear about what happens. The ONLY reason that this scam has gone on the way that it has for over 4 decades is because of peoples reluctancy to speak out against it. Of course the internet didnt exist for most of the history of Amway/Quixtar, but it does now, and the truth is getting out. I find it very ironic that Quixtar was created in hopes of growing the business, but it will more than likely be its undoing.

 

[Moe Maishlish]

Ok, I'll relate my experience as I remember it.

About two years ago I was approached by a former collegue of mine with what she described to me as a "business opportunity". She actually broght this opportunity to several people in my department, but most people declined. Nice guy that I am, I decided to oblige her... I'm a nice guy, and I'll help people out or join them in events even when I don't really feel like it. Boy did I learn from this experience.

Like many of you, when I asked for more specifics concerning the nature of the "business opportunity" that she was describing, I was given evasive answers like "It's a great marketing opportunity", "It's an investment oppoprtunity", and "I can't explain it as well as the people at the meeting... you'll see". With such evasive answers red-flags were already popping up, but I'm no dumb dumb, and I knew that I wouldn't be putting a cent down on anything that I wasn't sure about.

The night of the meeting, I show up to a packed house. Unlike the majority of the people however, I'm not wearing a suit & tie (even thought I was told that it was mandatory). Instead I show up in the button-down, khakis and leather jacket that I wore to work that day. Feeling a little out of place, I stand around the waiting area with all the other slick-looking types waiting for my "friend" to arrive. I gotta say that the general mood in the room was very positive and vibrant. Strangers were approaching me and introducing themselves, shaking my hand and welcoming me to the meeting. Most people were asking me who had invited me, where they were, what "team" they were involved with, etc. After about 20 minutes of this I started feeling a little uncomfortable... no huge group of strangers is EVER this nice without an angle, and my scam-radar was already running at full blast.

Eventually my friend shows up with her brother (her "uplink") who proceeds to greet me and tries to make small talk and motivate me. I ask him all the same questions I asked his sister, with the same general evasive responses. "Oh, you'll get all the details in the meeting, but trust me, you stand to make MILLIONS!". Sure, whatever... alarm bells are sounding in my head.

Eventually, after enough schmoozing time we're all ushered into the grand ballroom and take our seats. A television is wheeled to the front of the room, and after a few minutes the lights are dimmed, and some commercials are played for us. You would think the Maple Leafs had just won the Stanley cup - the reaction to these commercials was INSANE! People are cheering, clapping, whopping and hollering at the television... I couldn't believe it. Each of these commercials would compare "Normal Business" to "Business with Quixtar". One commercial I remember showed a water tap, slowly dripping water with the text "Normal Business" superimposed overtop. Within seconds, "Business with Quixtar" appears onscreen, accompanied by a raging waterfall and a HUGE response from the audience. OOOOOOOK.... so what the hell is Quixtar?

My question was soon answered.

Once the world-series of commercials had finished, the first of several used-car-salesmen types ran up to the stage, microphone in hand, to a standing ovation. He introduced himself as a Emerald-Diamond-whatever team leader, and welcomed us all to what he described as one of the most important evenings of our lives. Yah... ok... get to the point guy... I still don't know what you're trying to sell me.

After Emerald-Diamon-whatever guy was done his schpiel, he introduced the special "guest speaker", all the way from head office in wherever to convey his special message to all us new and potential Independent Buisiness Owners. Note that this was the FIRST time the IBO concept was even mentioned... the first time in the entire evening that a single aspect of the organization was touched upon, and I was already there for going on an hour.

Mr. "Guest Speaker" was definately a gifted public speaker, I'll give him that. The general gist of his message consisted of us asking ourselves "are we achieving everything we can possibly achieve?", "are we making they money that we want to be making?", and "what can we do to change our situation?". This was the bait - everyone wants more, right? We all want to improve ourselves, make more money, feel more fulfilled, and it quickly dawned on me that this was their entire marketing strategy - the promise of potential and the achievement of dreams. No concrete financial figures, no real business stragety... what we got was the "believe in yourself, and you can accomplish anything" speech. This was all supported by the speaker's assertion that he's a multi-millionaire, drives a Diablo, lives in a huge house, and couldn't be happier. "I'm here to help you!". Yah, ok...

THIS is when we got down to what the whole evening was really about... a recruitment drive. The IBO stragety was very briefly described (become an "IBO", buy products from your own business, registered under someone else, get others to register their business under you, etc), the most emphasis placed upon the financial benefits granted to different levels of success. "A Emerald will make this percentage per year, a Diamond will make this percentage..." etc. etc. etc. An analogy was drawn between Quixtar & McDonalds, such that that the owners of McDonalds make money off every franchise opened worldwide, simply by being the owners! We should all be owners, and have our own franchines under us! All we need to do is register for an IBO number at $100, buy some books & some tapes for "motivational reasons", and we'd be well on our way to becoming millionaires!!!

At this point I'm reeling. I don't have an MBA, I didn't take business in university, but the general gist of the stragety & marketing pitch was sitting VERY badly with me. So I make money from myself by buying from myself, and I need to recruit people under me to buy from themselves,and I get a percentage of their sales, etc etc etc. Ummm... no. I'm not going to annoy my friends & family the way that I was being annoyed - not for any amount of money.

The meeting concluded with the parading of a couple of dozen "Independent Business Owners" onstage, each speaking into the microphone and stating "Hi, I'm so-and-so, and I'm a proud Independent Business Owner!". Once this was finally over, we were thanked for our attendence, and the crowd dispersed into their individual "teams". My sleazeball team lead was the kind of person I'd have second thoughts about giving the time of day, much less working under. All my questions were answered with "read the books", or "listen to the tapes", or "come to the next meeting". You know what buddy? Those are not answers I like, and I'm not going to invest my money into anything without knowing EXACTLY what I'm investing in.

I thanked everyone for having me for the evening, and left with a very bad taste in my mouth.

The next day at work, my colleague approached me and asked how much I enjoyed the previous evening. I had prepared an answer for her, but at the last minute ditched it due to the level of complaining and issues I had concerning the entire business model. Instead, I simply said it was nice, very motivating, but that I didn't have the time to invest in into being an "IBO". She proceded to coax me, but I stood my ground, and that was that.

She left my department shortly after the whole Quixtar thing to go back to school, and I didn't really hear from her after that. I ran into her a couple of times, and she would mention "The Business", but I would continue to re-affirm that I wasn't interested due to my busy schedule.

In the end, I'm very very happy I didn't buy into this scam. I have no doubt that there are people out there raking in the money from this business, but it sure ain't the people at the bottom of the pile, slaving and alienating everyone in their lives.

I'll agree with what was said before. Want to make money and live the good life? Study, work hard, and spend your money wisely. There really is no better way.

Moe.

 

[ChrisArmour]

Great story Moe and thank you for sharing. I cant stand it when "they" compare their "opportunity" to legitimate businesses, like the McDonalds comparison. If McDonalds did business like Quixtar, then franchise owners would open their own McDonalds, be the only ones to eat at their own McDonalds, and then teach others to do the same. Its usually very easy to shoot holes in any analogy that Quixtar IBO's like to use, and they have many of them.

 

[Moe Maishlish]

That's exactly it Chris!

These analogies that they throw out during the meetings aren't just forgotten aftewards. I actually had some legitimate questions for my "uplinks" or whatever you want to call them, because a lot of this stuff just didn't sit well with me. Whenever I asked them about the issues that I felt were unanswered, I was always given vague & cryptic non-answers. It's in their benefit to NOT tell you what you need to know, so that you keep coming back for more, and eventually get sucked into the scheme. It's like paying a helpline $3.95 a minute, where all the technicians talk really slowly and keep hanging up on you mid-sentence.

If I'm a business, how am I supposed to make money off of myself, as a customer? If I buy a bar of soap for $5 from the Quixtar website using my IBO number, and they give me a 10% commission (and my uplink get's whatever percentage of that), how am I making money? Technically, I just SPENT $5, and got a 10% rebate, that's all.

Which brings me to another point. At the time when I was looking into Quixtar, I did a quick check of their website. If I remember correctly, a 2 pack of off-brand toothpaste cost about $10. That's not exactly what I consider to be cheap for toothpaste! Contrast that to walking down the street and buying a regular tube for $2.99. First it's MUCH cheaper, second it's a name brand, and third it's available to me right away! I'm not spending twice the price, I'm not buying some "Nature's Gate' no-name brand, and I'm not waiting 2 weeks for delivery! When I asked my co-worker about this exact issue a few days after the meeting (she kept asking me to reconsider), I got the regular evasive "You make money by selling the products." answer, followed by "It will all make sense with time". A double-whammy of B.S.

Basically, joining this "business model" does not make you an IBO. It makes you a customer of a blanket business (in this case, the website), and when you get your IBO number techinically you're becoming a business agent... there's NOTHING independent about the entire scam! As an agent, it's then your responsibility to recruit other agents, and make sure they recruit other agents, etc. Agent Smith described this kind of spread quite well in The Matrix - a virus.

Essentially, I found the entire sham to be an exploitation of people who have no concept of money, business, or capitalism. A few shady business-people who are preying on the hopes and dreams of the less fortunate to do their dirty work.

Moe.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Moe, your description of the recruitment meeting fits to a tee the very same approach used by Herbalife, Sunrider, Shacklee, etc. I even wrote "how-to" guides for meetings such as those (and I think Herbalife still sells some of them).

About the only outfit in all this MLM nonsense that offers a worthwhile product is Tupperware. I mean, at least there's a use for those containers.

I have an all-time favorite, behind-the-scenes story I like to tell about the Herbalife scam. I wrote -- composed, with made-up dialogue -- an "interview" with the (now late) founder and president of Herbalife, Mark Hughes, for the company's special 20th-anniversary hardcover retrospective collectors' book.

The interview never took place (Hughes was too busy to speak to his own staff writer/hucksters), so I made every bit of it up. It was terrific promotional writing. The dialogue, the descriptive prose. And Hughes sounded pretty darn good in it. Of course, none of it ever took place.

This, of course, bothered the top brass not one whit; scamming the public is instinctive for those types.

Needless to say, one can lose weight the old-fashioned way by eating less and exercising more. You don't need Herbalife's "Formula I" protein-drink mix. And to make money, the old rules still apply: Work full-time, and control that spending.

 

[ChrisArmour]

More on the Dateline story, this is going to be good!!!!
WoodTV Grand Rapids, MI

 

[Moe Maishlish]

My sentiments exactly.

Moe.

 

[ChrisArmour]

I was afraid that Dateline would do a wishy washy soft story about Quixtar, but it appears that they will be tearing the company apart. YEeeeeaaaaaYYYYY!!!!

 

[Tony Whalen]

Moe, that exactly explains what happened to me, although I went into it a bit further than you, despite my alarm-bells going crazy for all the same reasons. Glad I got out when I did!

Thanks for sharing your story!

 

[Tony Whalen]

Great quote! (Wasn't Bo Short a "Diamond" at one point?)

I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing this!

 

[Carl Johnson]

About a month ago I was approached at work by one of these salespeople who was offering an internet based career opportunity. I assumed it had to be some kind of mlm scheme but figured I would listen to what he had to say. I gave him my phone number and he gave me a business card saying that he worked for Britt Worldwide. I googled the company and found out "Britt has enjoyed several years of success due to tiny little ads placed in newspapers, magazines, and on TV, the Internet and the radio." Needless to say I didn't waste any more of my time by setting up an appointment to hear the official sales presentation.

 

[ChrisArmour]

Britt WorldWide(BWW) is one of 18 Quixtar Lines of Sponsorship(LOS), they are in what I would consider to be a tie, with Team of Destiny(TOD), for the absolute worst LOS, as far as deception and money loss goes(from what I've been able to find anyways). And yes, Bo Short was a Diamond in either TOD or Team in Focus(TIF), another Quixtar LOS. Heres a link to Bo Shorts blog.
FormerDiamond

 

[ChrisArmour]

The shows on!!!!

 

[ChrisArmour]

Well, the show was pretty good, and touched on most of the important facts about the scam. I am curious as to how the "true believer" IBO's will react to this show.

 

[Tony Whalen]

I thought that was excellent! I was just in awe at the major candle-lit event that they showed. I never attended an event of that magnitude, but it was just a larger version of some local events I had attended.

What amazed me most is how much every Quixtar IBO sounded the SAME. No wonder I've heard Amway/Quixtar folks refered to as "Am-zombies". They all voice the exact same things, right down to the letter. (I suppose I knew that, but seeing it like this was just that much more potent!)

I love how they trapped that one guy in his own BS...the fellow that claimed to be making 250,000. (Although he was so TOTALLY a "used-car-salesman" type...showing off his Rolex and such.)

Two things they didn't touch on though...

1. The role of women/wives in Quixtar. One of the things that turned us off RIGHT away was the apparent role Amway-wives play. They seem to appear as the "dutiful" wife, always wearing a skirt, always supporting the husband (and therefore the "business") and always standing proudly on stage as their husbands espouse the greatness of the system. Women seemed very secondary within this world, and we didn't like that one bit.

2. The role of Christianity in Quixtar. I sensed the undercurrent of "Christian values" when I was involved, although it wasn't too bad. But from my reading and research, Christianity seems very central to the larger events and/or upper echelons of Quixtar IBOs.

That said, it was quite a good story. I was surprised at how much they were able to cover in such a short time period.

 

[Paul_Medenwaldt]

The only thing I thought of when I saw this arena event was "fire hazard"

Paul

 

[chris_everett]

If upper level Quixtar types are Christians, then Alyssa Milano is waiting for me in my bedroom....

(Chris says a brief prayer, hoping that all of Quixtar finds Jesus)

But seriously, Quixtar/amway is mostly targeting lower-middle class, suburban/rural America, and that is group of people who are predominantly Christian. It only makes good, (if sleazy) business sense to target that. But their ethics/values (blatant displays of wealth) are... ironic, to say the least.

 

[Moe Maishlish]

FYI, for anyone who is interested, here's a link to the Dateline transcript for the Quixtar piece. I missed the show, so the transcript filled me in just fine.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4375477/

Moe.

 

[Citizen87645]

There ARE Christian denominations that basically say material wealth is evidence of God working in your life. Not to say these can be found anywhere else but on TV...