PW-2200, Seismic 12, or SVS...........

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Asalante, Mar 16, 2004.

  1. Asalante

    Asalante Agent

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    Well I was going to go for the pw-2200, but then changed my mind to the Seismic 12 by Paradigm. But from what I've been reading about SVS it seems I can get something equal or better for less money. Not sure I want to spend as much as the seismic 12's run. Plus the seismic 12 does not have a crossover-bypass or speaker-level inputs. How important might that be? So lost in the options.
     
  2. Michael Osadciw

    Michael Osadciw Screenwriter

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    Hi there,

    The PW-2200 is an excellent sub for the money. I have four of them in my system (one per main channel to extend each channel's frequency response to 20Hz and below). While I they don't have a crossover bypass option, I can assure you it won't be disasterous on the sound as I don't find it to be using an external crossover (disco'd Mirage LFX-3).

    For home theater, you don't want to be using the speaker level terminals at all, only use the low-level in on the sub from the LFE output of your pre/pro or receiver.

    The PW-2200 you are looking at is the new v.2 (or is it v.3? ...who knows, they keep changing v.s all of the time). The amp is completely different than the previous version and boasts more power and a little more boom. I think the previous version was a little tighter, but output is greater on the newer one.

    The seismic 10/12 is a powerful sub. If you have a large room and you need to fill it with deep loud bass, I do recommend this sub for an LFE (especially the 12). I'm thinking of picking one or two of these up for single or dual LFE (yes, I'm completely nuts, but I like to have fun).

    Give both subs a fair shot. Listen to music with them, something with a good tight bass line, kick drum, and then multiple bass notes. See how tight they are in comparison, and make sure they don't have too much overhang in your room. That'll slow the pace down.

    As far as SVS, I have yet to hear one so I have no opinion.

    Best of luck!
    Michael
     
  3. Asalante

    Asalante Agent

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    I believe the pw-2200 is v3 not positive though. The room I'm using is roughly 14x20. Though not all for HT, but still thats the size of the room to be dealt with. I'd say the HT area will occupy roughly 14x14 of it. I see the PB2-ISD from SVS is about the same price as a pw-2200, not sure how it would compare to a seismic 12 though. My local dealer said the seismic is 2xas much as the pw, so it's 17-1800?....
     
  4. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Where are you located? This is key, in canada the digms are cheaper and import duties and such on SVS make it a pretty close call. In the U.S., get the SVS, it's definitlye cheaper for at least as much sub. PCi 20-39 is pretty much a servo 15, for a lot less.
     
  5. Alan Pummill

    Alan Pummill Screenwriter

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    Asalante,

    I've had the PW-2200 v.1 for about two years, It is a very fast, musical sub, but doesn't go low or loud enough for some DVD material. Until about 2.5 months ago, it was used in a total Paradigm Monitor series 5.1 system.

    Then, after upgrading to an all Magnepan speaker system, with their improved sound stage, detail, and response, I knew that more bass was needed. So I bought a SVS PC-Ultra. The Ultra is just as musical and fast as the PW-2200, but it also goes lower and louder on DVD's. So I decided to sell my PW-2200. But after some experimentation, I've discovered that if I run both of these subs together, I get a bit more bass headroom on stereo CD playback, which represents about 90% of my listening. I have both subs located in my front right corner.

    So my take on this subject is this. If you only need a sub for music, either sub would do a fine job. If you want that "you are there" DVD experience, go for a SVS. I have found that in my case, the combination of the two are just the ticket I was looking for. I am going to do some more listening and comparison before I let that PW-2200 go!! Hope this helps.
     
  6. Asalante

    Asalante Agent

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    Thanks guys, this is making it easier. I'm in the US, though not all that far from Canada, 3 hrs drive I suppose lol. But it looks more and more like I should go with the SVS. This is going to be more DVD than music but not by much, 60/40 I suppose. I will take a look at the Ultra from SVS. At first impression I am impressed with their cusomer service at SVS and I'm not even a customer yet! Replied right back to my email to them with some, objective input. Always nice to see.

    Thus far my intentions are:

    Para Ref:
    CC-470
    Studio 60's
    ADP-470's
    Sub-(???)

    Probably run with a Denon 3803 or 3805 for now.
     
  7. ChrisPATT

    ChrisPATT Stunt Coordinator

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    I read a lot of posts here comparing the servo 15 to different SVS models, and I wonder what kind of thought process goes into making these statements. I am familiar with the Servo 15 but have never heard the 20-39, so I cannot validate if these two subs are really the same performance wise.

    I realize that this board as a major fascination with SVS, and that it also might be justified, but are some of these comparisons really valid? Does the 20-39 have the same power output, low distortion level output, feq range, etc at the Servo?
     
  8. Ralph B

    Ralph B Supporting Actor

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    check it out, i guess if someone is making that statement than they are going by specs.

    for people who say the SVS shines on DVD movies. I have the 25-31PC+ and it shines just as much on music. as a matter of fact I bought it thinking how much I love to watch movies and how often and how this sub would be so great. well after hearing music on it I now do mostly music listening cause the SVS sounds so good and impressed me so much with music. SACD & DVD-A sounds beautiful on it!!!!!!!!!! very acurate!
     
  9. ChrisPATT

    ChrisPATT Stunt Coordinator

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    I have tried to check it out, but I don't see where the specs are listed? Care to point me in the right direction?
     
  10. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    http://members.cox.net/frankcarter/T...Sub%20Data.htm

    The Siesmic 12 can not play louder or lower than the PW2200. All it has over the PW2200 is it's enclosure is smaller. The Servo15 can play deeper than the other two Paradigms, but it isn't as loud in the above 30hz range.

    The original SVS 20-39CS with the old amp posted better numbers for output than all three. Since then the driver has been improved and a better amp is being offered.

    Couple things to remember the Siesmic and PW are bass reflex designs tuned in the 25-30hz range. The PB2 ISD is tuned to 25hz and I'd recommend against using the port blockers to lower the tune. SVS has other models that are natively tuned to 20hz and 16hz (and one that's 22hz). It hasn't been mentioned by SVS yet but you might also be able to ask for a custom tuned PB2 ISD that will get the tune closer, or to 20hz (in which case it will beat a Servo15 in the last octave rather than just match it). Since the PB2+ has room for 4" ports I'm sure longer 3" ports will fit in the ISD.

    You can expect at least 6dB more output from a PB2 ISD over all the Paradigms above 25hz and just the Siesmic and PW below 25hz.
     
  11. ChrisPATT

    ChrisPATT Stunt Coordinator

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    According to that list, the Servo 15 did 107dB at 21Hz, while the SVS did 91dB at 20Hz. Other reviews I read on the Servo state 110dB at 20Hz, and Paradigm reports 114dB at 20Hz. Where do you see that the SVS rated better output?

    Plus the Servo (according to Paradigm) has a feq response down to 14Hz. From what I have read, that is lower than the SVS.

    I have not been able to find anything on distortion levels on the SVS, but would like to see a comparison to the Servo, which has very low levels.
     
  12. Craig Chase

    Craig Chase Gear Guru

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    The SVS in that report is a $500 sub, and is basically obsolete...

    To compare with the Paradigm... You would look at the PB2+ ... which will handily do 115 db or more in room at 20 Hz...

    I have personally seen it achieve 119 db at 20 Hz in a theater room ...with strong room gain

    And 114 Db at 20 Hz on a carpet covered concrete floor that is very close to measuring outside...

    It is a very powerful sub... check it out...
     
  13. ChrisHeflen

    ChrisHeflen Supporting Actor

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    Dustin B, are you sure about your numbers on the "Siesmic"?

    Their website states that it has a 1200 rms 4500 peak amp compared to the pw2200 at 400 rms 1500 peak.

    Plus the Siesmic has two 10" passive radiators and goes down to 17hz (DIN).

    Looks like it has a little more as far as differences than just a smaller enclosure that also happens to weigh the same.
     
  14. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    I'd put infintely more stock in Nousaine's measurements than Paradigm's or any manufacture's posted specs for that matter.

    The measurements in the link I posted to were all in the same room by the same very respected reviewer and can therefore be directly compared. Comparing manufacture's specs is almost useless.

    The measurements in that link are all with a 10% THD limit. There was no 20hz measurement in that link for the Servo15. There was for both the Siesmic and PW2200 both of which were lower than the 20-39.

    The Servo15 will have more output in the last octave than a 20-39 but not by much. I'd be very surprised if it had more than a PB2 ISD.

    Watts have little to do with how well a sub will perform. Hoffman's Iron law, out of enclosure size, extension and efficiency you can pick two and the third will be dicated to you. The Siesmic gives up efficiency to get a smaller size, meaning it needs all that power to do what a larger sub can do with significantly less power.

    Paradigm's DIN ratings are pretty much useless.
     
  15. ChrisPATT

    ChrisPATT Stunt Coordinator

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    I listed measurements from audio reviews sources, not just paradigm. I looked at several, and all were above the specs given by the Nousaine link.

    Let me just add.... I am sure the 20-39 is a great sub, esp for the money - but from what I have read, I don't believe it can contend evenly with the Servo. And considering the Servo cost a lot more, the Servo should be better.
     
  16. JohnSmith

    JohnSmith Supporting Actor

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    I'll buy a Bose then- because they cost more than a pair Kef Eggs they must be superior.

    BTW- the Servo is dirt cheap in the UK- £400. Roughly the same price as a MJ Acoustics 50. I know they are quite expensive in the USA (gotta love the Canadians way of treating the American customers) :)
     
  17. ChrisPATT

    ChrisPATT Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks so much for contributing to the thread. Your knowledge should be shared with others.

    Paradigm is considered by many to offer a great product for a great cost. I have not heard the same of Bose. Generally with Paradigm, you get what you pay for. However, if you want to compare the two, I will leave that up to you.
     
  18. ChrisHeflen

    ChrisHeflen Supporting Actor

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    My bad, I thought you were talking about the physical differences.

    I haven't heard the two side by side so I cannot comment on their performance differences. And until Mr. Nousaine takes his measurements in my house then I'll put no stock in his measurements.
     
  19. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    ChrisPATT:

    You're misreading the list, the SVS CS clearly posts better numbers than the servo-15:

    The servo 15 number of 107.3 is the 25-62hz average.
    SVS CS 20-39 with the old driver posts 109.5 25-62hz average.

    As a big paradigm fan who has heard the servo 15, I can say nothing but positive things about it. IT is a solid performer, and a good bargain in the retail world. The thing is, a PCi SVS will equal it for much less money, if you live in the US, that is. They are both extremely high-quality subs with solid performance.

    Here is a good discussion if you're interested:
    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...light=servo+15
     
  20. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    I aggree with everything ChrisW said.

    Nousaine's measurements are in a very large room (almost 8000ft^3). This easily explains why other magazine posts higher numbers for various subs. The room greatly effects what kind of output you can get.

    The thing is since all Nousaine's measurements are in the same room using the same protocol each time, the relative differences in the numbers he gets compared to what would be recorded in any other room would be the same. Different manufactures and magazines are measuring in different rooms with different protocols. So comparing between these measurements is not very helpful.
     

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