Public Domaine films, elements used for home video releases (1 Viewer)

[battlebeast]

If a film is in the public domain, it's free to use by anyone, correct? So does that mean the original studio HAS to let anyone use the elements if they have them? or does the person/group wishing to release the PD film have to find their own elements to use?

 

[Matt Hough]

The studio would be under no obligation to provide outsiders with their materials.

 

[ahollis]

Right Matt, they would hold on to every frame.

 

[battlebeast]

The studio would be under no obligation to provide outsiders with their materials.

Thank you.

If, say, KINO wanted to release a film FOX had no intention of ever releasing, do you think they would be more forthcoming if KINO asked, or just as AHOLLIS said, hold on to every frame?

 

[Garysb]

Also a film is in the public domain only if the holders of the rights chose not to enforce their rights. There are so many parts to a film that even if a studio failed to renew its copyright after 28 years under the old copyright law things such as the music used or the story used as the basis of the film may still be protected,

As for a studio providing a 3rd party with original elements to release a film the studio has no interest in releasing, I doubt a studio would treat a film in the public domain any different from any other film in its library. Why would the studio provide its elements to a third party without or at a reduced cost? What is the incentive? I think Fox or any studio would make the same deal with Kino or another 3rd party provider for a film in public domain or fully protected.

 

[Patrick McCart]

The reason why most public domain releases are poor quality has to do with the label working with only materials outside of archives and vaults. Which is why Mill Creek's release of Night of the Living Dead looks and sounds like garbage, while Criterion licensed the 4K restoration off the camera negative and involved the filmmakers.

Criterion also properly licensed Charade, Carnival of Souls, My Man Godfrey, and One-Eyed Jacks; Shout! Factory licensed The Brain That Wouldn't Die, The Screaming Skull, and the '59 House on Haunted Hill. Olive Films licensed The Stranger from MGM. Twilight Time licensed Zulu from MGM.

And even if the film is public domain, there's probably still other rights with music, story, and trademarks that are still copyrighted. So, even if something like Steamboat Willie went into the public domain, Disney still owns the characters and any proper film materials.

 

[Tony Bensley]

Does anyone here have any knowledge in regards to the copyright status for "Shine On, Harvest Moon" which Oliver Hardy sings so beautifully in THE FLYING DEUCES (1939), an underrated Laurel and Hardy feature length comedy that's in the Public Domain?

CHEERS!

 

[battlebeast]

Thanks for all the info!

 

[Robin9]

Does anyone here have any knowledge in regards to the copyright status for "Shine On, Harvest Moon" which Oliver Hardy sings so beautifully in THE FLYING DEUCES (1939), an underrated Laurel and Hardy feature length comedy that's in the Public Domain?

CHEERS!

If you want hear that song done really well, listen to Rosemary Clooney's version with Nelson Riddle!

 

[Robert Crawford]

If you want hear that song done really well, listen to Rosemary Clooney's version with Nelson Riddle!

You mean George's, Aunt Rosemary?

 

[Robin9]

You mean George's, Aunt Rosemary?

I do indeed! For me, she's the more interesting talent of the two.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I do indeed! For me, she's the more interesting talent of the two.

She was good, but I think George is underrated as an actor.

 

[Angelo Colombus]

Deleted.

 

[skylark68]

I will say that some of those crummy PD DVD's that float around have exposed me to some good movies. I remember picking up Mr. Moto's Last Warning and loving the film even with the terrible VHS quality resolution. When the box sets came out a year or so later I instantly picked them up and they all had nice transfers by the studio. It's strange how that one film out of all the Moto films went PD.

Another one that was highly interesting was Nosferatu with a soundtrack by Type O Negative. Talk about strange, but it worked...

I think I bought both of those from Walgreens of all places.

 

[Garysb]

Does anyone here have any knowledge in regards to the copyright status for "Shine On, Harvest Moon" which Oliver Hardy sings so beautifully in THE FLYING DEUCES (1939), an underrated Laurel and Hardy feature length comedy that's in the Public Domain?

CHEERS!

Unfortunately its a complicated question to answer. While the song may be in public domain the version of the song may not be. A famous example is "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz". The book is in public domain so anyone can use Dorothy and her friends in a new story without permission but if you use something unique to the MGM film such as making the shoes ruby red instead of silver as in the book you are in violation of Warner Bros copy-write. Whether Oliver Hardy singing "Shine On, Harvest Moon" is in public domain would take research. Such things like the song arrangement might be still protected or the words used in the movie might be unique .

The song, "Happy Birthday To You" was considered protected until someone sued to have it declared in the public domain and won. The song was originally written by a Kindergarten teacher and her sister in the late 1800's as "Good Morning To You" It became Happy Birthday later and was supposedly under copy write from about 1936. In September 2015, a federal judge declared that the Warner/Chappell copyright claim was invalid, ruling that the copyright registration applied only to a specific piano arrangement of the song, and not to its lyrics and melody. In 2016, Warner/Chappell settled for $14 million, and the court declared that "Happy Birthday to You" was in the public domain.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/happy-birthday-song-officially-recognized-in-public-domain/

 

[Tony Bensley]

Does anyone here have any knowledge in regards to the copyright status for "Shine On, Harvest Moon" which Oliver Hardy sings so beautifully in THE FLYING DEUCES (1939), an underrated Laurel and Hardy feature length comedy that's in the Public Domain?

CHEERS!

Unfortunately its a complicated question to answer. While the song may be in public domain the version of the song may not be. A famous example is "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz". The book is in public domain so anyone can use Dorothy and her friends in a new story without permission but if you use something unique to the MGM film such as making the shoes ruby red instead of silver as in the book you are in violation of Warner Bros copy-write. Whether Oliver Hardy singing "Shine On, Harvest Moon" is in public domain would take research. Such things like the song arrangement might be still protected or the words used in the movie might be unique .

These are all excellent points, Gary.

I'd think for getting a more definitive answer, the best place to start would be to find out whether the song itself is copyright protected, and if not, work on researching the more complex nuances from there.

CHEERS!

 

[Rick Thompson]

"Shine On Harvest Moon" dates back to 1908, and so is in the public domain. Specific arrangements, performances or new lyrics may be protected, though. If you can find a pre-1923 piece of sheet music, that's public domain -- music, lyrics, arrangement and all. Before 1923 is the public domain, according to "The Public Domain: How to Find and Use Copyright-Free Writings and More," 8th edition published in 2017. It's written by attorney Stephen Fishman, published by Nolo Press, and available on Amazon for $27.19.

 

[Tony Bensley]

"Shine On Harvest Moon" dates back to 1908, and so is in the public domain. Specific arrangements, performances or new lyrics may be protected, though. If you can find a pre-1923 piece of sheet music, that's public domain -- music, lyrics, arrangement and all. Before 1923 is the public domain, according to "The Public Domain: How to Find and Use Copyright-Free Writings and More," 8th edition published in 2017. It's written by attorney Stephen Fishman, published by Nolo Press, and available on Amazon for $27.19.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shine_On,_Harvest_Moon

The Oliver Hardy rendition of what is the original second verse is so close to that from the 1909 (Pre 1923!) recording (The only minor difference lyrically being the reverse order of January, April!), and the arrangements so similar that I suspect it's simply never been deemed worthwhile to pursue any copyright protection for this version, either in of itself, or as workaround protection for THE FLYING DEUCES (1939).

CHEERS!