PSB Image 7PT vs 6T?

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by Chris PC, Apr 9, 2004.

  1. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    Recently "upgrading" my SR 6200 to an SR 7000 has resulted in my realizing that my PSB Image 6T's can produce good quality deep bass.

    My question is:

    1) For those of you who own the 7PT, how do you like it? Have you compared it to the 6T? How was it in comparison? More bass? No kidding, but how much more, how much better?

    I don't really understand how the 7PT works. I understand that it has the bottom two woofers crossed over at 200 hz vs the 500 z of the 6T, and of course the bottom two woofers are each amplified with their own 130 watt amp in each speaker, but the top most woofer seems to be a midrange only. Is the top most woofer crossed above 200 hz? How can two woofers equal or better three woofers.

    2) Should I pursue more power for my 6T's or try the 7PT's?

    I want to keep the Image setup but improve the quality of the bass. I'm not bothering with integrating my subwoofer for music for the time being. I'll try more of that later, but first I wan to maximize my 2 channel. I'm amazed at how good the 6T's bass is, so I just want more.
     
  2. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    Are there any PSB Image 7PT owners in the GTA or Southern Ontario area? I'd love to have a listen to your speakers.
     
  3. Michael__M

    Michael__M Stunt Coordinator

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    I am confused as to why you would be hesitant to add a sub to your system to fill in the bass. The added amps and subs of the 7pt's are in essence doing the same as a sub would do. The sub would give you more control and headroom in my opinion.

    I have the 5T's and the bass is adequate for my music listening. Addind the sub, when properly calibrated, fills in the low end nicely and is seemless if I need more bass and for HT use.

    Michael
     
  4. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    Its a long story....seriously. I haven't been hesitant to use the subwoofer, I have tried it, but I haven't had great success yet. Bottom line is I am trying to achieve the best sound quality, including the deepest tightest bass possible, with my front speakers alone first.

    I've tried adding my subwoofer, and I continue to experiment. Using my subwoofer for music means I must use my receivers stereo mode, instead of the Source Direct mode, which seems to sound better. This was more pronounced with my SR 6200, but there is less of a difference between SD on and off with the SR 7000 that I am now using. A step in the right direction, but music still sounds best in SD.

    After replacing the SR 6200 with the SR 7000 I noticed that 2 channel music sounds really good with the 6T's alone. I suspect it sounds better than the 6200 did. Source Direct is better sounding than normal stereo, although not by a huge amount in the 7000. There was a bigger difference between SD on and off with the 6200. I my experience, the bass always sounds cleaner with my front speakers alone. I will experiment more, but the subwoofer, although adding low end slam, seems to muddle up the bass and remove the tight, ear-filling bass I hear with the speakers alone. PSB Image 7 PT's would sound different than having a subwoofer, because they would sound more like my 6T's, only possibly playing deeper while remaining tight sounding.

    I'll experiment more with the speakers and the subwoofer and see what I come up with. It is possible the subwoofer is too much for my small room. The main problem is that I get the best sound in Source Direct, but in Source Direct, I can't use the subwoofer for 2 channel music CD's using the subwoofer pre-out on the receiver. I have tried using the front left and right pre-outs, and it works, but there is an overlap between the front speakers 32 hz -3 dB point and the subwoofers 50 hz crossover lower limit.

    I am have been picky and stuborn, but I'm willing to keep trying. For all I know, the improvement in sound from switching receivers is due to disconnecting and re-connecting the speaker wire, perhaps working off some corrosion. I'm being a little sarcastic, as I'm pretty sure the 7000 sounds better overall than the 6200, especially in the low bass, but I'm not pretending to think its a huge difference, but I swear I hear higher quality bass now with the 7000. With the 6200, I was always listening for that tight low end that fills your ears. The deep, tight low bass, long with the slam you can feel, and with the 6200, it never sounded like that. With the 7000, its seems obvious, I heard it and felt it, it was what I was missing, and so now I know my 6T's have bass and I want more. I want to find out how good the 6T/7PT speaker design can sound without a subwoofer. Many people say they listen to music with the front speakers alone, but I was never satisfied with what I heard. I'm going to try and maximize my 2 channel now, before adding the subwoofer, either by trying 7PT's, continually upgrading my receiver to ones with better power supply and less need for source direct (this would mean I'd be able to blend the subwoofer with the receivers crossover and use the receivers tone controls too) or trying an outboard amp.

    What receiver and subwoofer do you use with your 5T's?
     
  5. Glenn Verde

    Glenn Verde Extra

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    I use a NAD 752 and will be getting a HSU VTF2 in the next 2-3 weeks.
     
  6. Michael__M

    Michael__M Stunt Coordinator

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    I have the H/K 7200. I had a Hsu STF-2 for a while but returned it. I am currently without sub and am satisfied with the bass for music. I am going to add the sub again soon for movies.

    I originally was extremely unsatisfied with the low end output of the 5T's. I experimented with different amps and ended up getting the 7200 for its high power output capabilities. I have a fairly large room 20x27x9 with a large opening to the rest of the house. I was able to get a good amount of bass with the new receiver but honestly, the most improvement I experienced was when I repositioned my speakers and listening arrangement. I ended up turning my room around and the bass opened up nicely. I had been fighting some room reflections and was probably sitting in a dead spot. Try moving the speakers around some and experimenting if you haven't done that already.

    I don't know about the SD setting on your receiver. It sounds odd that you cannot use the sub out in that mode. I just don't know if you will ever get the bass you desire with main towers alone, especially if you just keep adding 6.5" drivers to the mix.

    Michael
     
  7. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    True. I just want to see how good it gets with the towers alone. 6T's go to 32 hz and 7PT's go to 25 hz. Maybe its just specs and actual output at power and higher volume doesn't give you the bass, but who knows. I just want to listen and decide for myself. I still believe my replacing the SR 6200 with the 7000 made a difference. I was constantly straining to hear tight low bass with the 6200. Now its like, every few minutes there will be deep tight low end in the music I'm listening too, that ear filling low low bass that I love, and I'm surprised to hear it. Its sounds great. Just trying to get a little more of it. I have an SR 8000 on the way, which is going to cost me less than $100 to swap in. I'll see how that goes. Won't sound worse, thats for sure.
     
  8. ChrisAG

    ChrisAG Supporting Actor

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    I think you're doing the right thing - power is the key, not getting new speakers. The 8000 apparently has more reserve than the 7000, so it should be better; I'd like to hear it!
     
  9. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    ChrisAG,

    Well, its on its way [​IMG] Tom Guitarman on HTF is UPS'ing the SR 8000 to me as we speak. I look forward to its arrival. When I get it here, you are welcome to come over and have a listen to the receivers. If I have the SR 6200 here, we can have a shootout...lol, but at the very least compare the 7000 and 8000 out of curiosity.

    I guess I'm curious what the 25 hz -3 dB rating of the 7PT's means vs the 32 hz -3 dB rating of the 6T's. I even asked PSB if its possible to modify the 6T's perhaps with the 7PT's 200 hz crossover, but I doubt thats a good idea. More higher quality power should do it. I think ultimately the SR 8300 will be all I'll ever need, but I'm not spending the money for that now. I'll need to sell the SR 6200 and the SR 7000 as it is, although I'm tempted to keep the 7000, it sounds so nice. On the SR 7000 the difference between Source Direct (SD) ON and OFF is much less noticable than on the 6200. Hopefully it'll be even less noticable on the 8000. Ultimately, with the 8300, its not noticable, according to many. That means I get an 80 hz crossover with the subwoofer WHEN I TURN IT ON, and otherwise, I can use the bass tone control with the 8300 just to boost the bass a wee bit. That may be all I need. If I'm lucky, perhaps the difference of SD ON and OFF will be small enough on the 8000 that I won't care. I'll wait and see. The 8300 has lots I want, but its out of my price range now. I will buy it used.
     
  10. Erik Farstad

    Erik Farstad Supporting Actor

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    Chris, with the built in amps in the 7PT's the speaker does not require as much "juice" (to run the low end), therefore you get better separation, dynamics, and detail from the 7PT's compared to the 6PT's but some do not even notice the difference...as with anything it's subjective. For music, honestly, most material do not have info that reach down into the realm that the 7PT's can produce...so I'd stick with the 6PT's and invest your money in a separate 2-channel amp to run the 6PT's if you REALLY want to make them sing.
     
  11. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    A new PSB Image line is coming too. That should be very interesting to see. I wonder if they will remain similar to the way they are now, or be radically different.

    I think I'll stick with the 6T's for now, but I'm still hoping to give the 7PT's a listen if I could find someone who has a pair. I've heard their electronics aren't so good though, so I don't even know if I'm interested. I just wonder if its possible to modify the 6T's with the 7PT crossover and use your own outboard amps to bi-amp the 6T's such that you get similar or better deep bass performance than the 7PT's specs are rated as.

    I could always get a second pair of 6T's and put each pair beside one another! Side by side towers! lol...I'd sure have good volume on the bottom octave. Although adding drivers alone won't give lower bass extention, I wonder if doubling the cabinet volume as well as adding the 3 extra drivers would give deeper bass extention? Just a funny idea.
     
  12. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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  13. Erik Farstad

    Erik Farstad Supporting Actor

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    Chris, I am a dealer for PSB and do not offer them in my distribution area...they used to be, but are no longer...and it is my understanding they are discontinued.
     

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