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Discussion in 'Gaming' started by Bryan^H, Jul 19, 2016.
The hardware to support HDR was in the PS4 all along, so now they're enabling it. Yes, you need an HDR-supporting TV (which means its also 4K) to take advantage of this. This is for people who own PS4 right now, have a TV supporting HDR, and don't want to buy a Pro. Or people who want to save money later one by buying a PS4 or HDR TV but not spend the extra money for a Pro.
Someone from Sony gave a comment yesterday or today that said the reason they don't support UHD discs is because their data from PS4 usage is heavily favoring streaming. I am not surprised. If you look at how a majority of people are consuming non-gaming media on their PS4 consoles right now, it's probably like 95% streaming (WAG number). Getting stuff from Amazon, Netflix, YouTube, etc. is probably not the worst option.
As for the PS3 PSN games not working on PS4, I'm not entirely convinced that its a valid argument. Every game console maker has dropped legacy support at some point (Wii U won't play GameCube discs, XBOne launched with zero backward support) so I don't think this is an especially big failure on Sony's part. A game being on PSN for PS3 doesn't mean it will automatically work on PS4. The architecture change between the PS3 and PS4 was huge, so there was no way for Sony to natively support everything right out of the box. PS Now is not a perfect option but its a surprisingly good one for people who never had a PS3. Nobody complained when the Nintendo 64 didn't play Super NES games.
I do play a lot of games, mostly PC, but will play on PS4 whenever I have a title I can't get on PC. For me, i'm really looking for a multipurpose media device. It can play games, stream (Netflix, Crunchyroll), so UHD BD would be the only real missing feature for me and I can simplify my setup.
Unfortunately, the XBox One S doesn't support Atmos so that's not a perfect device either, but maybe Scorpio will fix that.
Scorpio may, but I doubt it. Atmos isn't a big enough feature for it to be worth MS paying the licensing fee.
Wow, 4K PS4 with NO UHD BD support? I did not see this coming. And this is coming from Sony - the company that originally introduced (with the help of others, of course) the Blu-ray format, included it to the PS3 (with great success) and supported it all these years. And c'mon, Sony has released over 20 UHD releases already (perhaps even more?).
Sure, this probably was a price issue (they needed to have the launch price "under" 400$), but dammit, this was a stupid decision.
I just find it very odd that, in the world of gaming, nobody gave a crap about UHD support and all of the talk was about teraflops and online streaming and downloadable patches and HDR and 4K and this and that...but now it's all about how the PS4 Pro is crap because it doesn't support UHD discs. Seems like a weird line in the sand that came out of nowhere. For HTF, I get it, since this is a place for enthusiasts, but I don't understand the wider gaming community's reaction to it.
Well, the "format war" still plays a big part in gaming (probably less than before, though) and Microsoft has announced that Xbox One S and the upcoming "Scorpio" will support UHD. So for some people "in the trenches", PS4 Pro is "inferior" product and all that jazz. Even when many of these people don't have any real plans to buy UHD releases. So this is one of the reasons: Xbox One plays something that PS4 won't.
To me, it's just plain weird (also from the business point of view - Sony is also a "movie house") that 4K games on a Blu-ray disc are supported, 1080p BD games are supported, 1080p BD movies are supported - but then suddenly when there's a 4K movie on a Blu-ray disc it is not. I mean what you have on a Blu-ray disc is an optimized 4K experience when it comes to movies. The movie from 4K UHD WILL look and sound better than any streaming service (at least if the UHD transfer comes from the proper master etc etc). So in other words, UHD is a great (or should a say, ideal?) way to demonstrate how good 4K can really be.
So yes, to me "Pro" means that all the angles in 4K should be covered. But now they're not. And this is why I have no need for Pro. Since it's not really "Pro" for me.
I think the most obvious answer is that most gamers like new technology. UHD is a new format that they would love to buy into, and considering the Xbox One S is a UHD player, it almost seems like Sony is behind the times. Especially since the PS2 was dvd player and the PS3 a Blu-Ray player(damn good one too). Maybe the development team of the PS Pro were ignorant of Microsoft adding UHD BD support to the XBONE S, and Scorpio. But if they knew it seems they would at least try to match the functionality of their competitor's system to entice buyers to pick theirs instead.
Going solely on the forums at IGN Sony has made a huge error in judgement, and already lost the fight in the next gen system war.
I understand that, but Sony has made it pretty clear since the PS4 was announced years ago that it is a gaming machine, first and foremost. They also said that they don't see people using bluray movies much on the PS4 as it is but instead using streaming a LOT, so they didn't see much benefit in adding UHD disc support. I totally get that its a business decision and it doesn't bother me.
And honestly, with the sole exception of UHD disc support, Xbox One (even S) is an inferior product in every single regard. It's not HUGELY inferior, but it is weaker. People can talk about how wonderful Scorpio will be but it won't even be on the market for over a year. For all we know, Sony could release a UHD upgraded PS4 Pro 2 by then and be on an even level with MS.
If you're buying an Xbox One S for UHD support, then you probably don't care so much about games. That's fine, to each his own. But the PS4 and the Pro are primarily made for games.
EDIT: If you do a direct comparison between PS4 Pro and a $400 Xbox One S, the HDD difference is 1 TB on Pro vs. 2 TB on Xbox One S (but you can upgrade a Pro HDD, not so with One S) and the Pro is a MUCH better gaming machine all around. MS decided to add UHD support and jack up the price while doing absolutely nothing to the console for games. Sony decided to make games better and do nothing for the other functions that they observed nobody using. Personal taste here, but I'd rather have better graphics and HDR in my games than UHD support.
I had no intention of getting one anyway. The only thing I cared about is if it had UHD BD support to help boost sales of UHD discs, and drive more studios to adopt the format and start releasing movies. Selfish I know.
I wanted to throw out there because I saw someone say that the Xbox One S plays back UHD disks and thats it. It also supports HDR games and they have announce three titles coming out this year so far. I think Bryan nailed it gamers like to brag about their gaming machines this generation it has been all PSx... Now the "S" has an upper hand in one area and the community is upset. Heck the reason Sony didn't see people playing movies is that is how they sold it. It was sold as a game console period. Where as MS although with their own share of stumbles was trying to be that central device in your living room. Heck other then watching disks everything else runs through my Xbox (TV, Streaming, Gaming...).
Second note they have officially started working on the Atmos/DTS:X fix from a few people I have talked to. There is really no licensing fee since they are not decoding it they just need to true bitstream it out. They are currently doing the decoding in the current setup. We will see however if they get it fixed in the "S" version.
I still think it is a dumb move on Sony's fault but this whole format they have focused on streaming first...
Not true you just plug in an external drive and you can add up to 3TB, I do it now. They also support HDR games.
Im not a huge gamer, but I do enjoy playing the wiiU with my 12yo son. Lstely hes been asking about getting a playststion or xbox this Christmas. I am a movie lover, so a console that includes a uhd player would hold an edge for me. So if MS can upgrade the S to include Atmos by December, im in.
Including a uhd player that doesn't support uhdbd audio formats seems boneheaded to me. If it did it would have been a day one purchase for me.
I can't imagine the extra cost of including uhdbd playback would be particularly prohibitive. And since the xbox one was marketed as a media hub, I would think Sony would have added uhdbd just to avoid a negative when reviewers and posters inevitably compare the two consoles. But I guess Sony is more interested in pushing their streaming services.
The One S supports HDR (and so does the base model PS4, after a patch going out next week) but it doesn't support 4K gaming. Considering the Xbox One is less powerful than PS4, and the One S less powerful than PS4 Pro, the same game on both platforms will still have the potential to look better on PS4. Also, Sony announced more pre-existing HDR-supported games this week than MS has announced pre-existing or future HDR-supported games on the One S since it was announced (the total is 4). Saying the One S supports HDR games is a bit misleading, since I imagine there will be some sacrifice to performance somewhere and barely anything supports it.
Sony isn't actually pushing *their* streaming services. They announced that there will not be any 4K content on their video store on PS4 any time soon. The only source of 4K content will be Netflix and YouTube for now. I imagine Amazon will join in at some point and you could buy/rent things to stream from there.
If I read correctly, the issue with UHD disc playback is more about the hardware than the firmware. I don't think Sony wanted to upgrade the disc drive in the PS4 and instead focus on the GPU and CPU. The cost increase between the PS4 slim and PS4 Pro ($100) gets you 500 GB more of HDD space and more powerful graphics. Adding a new disc drive would have driven the cost higher up. Past $400, no new hardware will do well in the console gaming space.
I get the Xbox is less powerful... They focused on a all around machine not just gaming. PS4 Pro being able to do 4K games is cool although we will see what that really brings. Announced titles mean nothing these days as some of the announced launch titles for the Xbox just came out a month or two ago. 4K up-converted games look fantastic on the "S", Fallout 4 looks great and I have noticed the framerate improvement as it seems a lot smoother. Here is a good article comparing the two. http://www.wired.co.uk/article/ps4-pro-vs-xbox-one-s
I think that Sony will still hold the edge in gaming and for those that want just that, your set. For those normal consumers that want one device to meet the kids gaming and playback 4K movies on there fancy new 4K TV, Xbox has the advantage. It will be interesting to see where we are next year at this time when the new Xbox comes out...
I agree that hardcore gamers will be happy with the PS4 Pro, but I don't think "normal consumers" care about UHD discs just yet. Normal consumers don't even have 4K TVs. And honestly, when people find out that their Netflix subscription already includes 4K content, they probably won't bother to consider buying $30+ UHD discs, anyway.
that's probably being generous. I see zero excitement for this from anyone. most seem to wonder what the point is. Now there's a rumour you might have to pay for the graphic upgrade patch:
everything about the PS4 Pro seems like too little to me. Instead of seeing a pine tree, you can now see the needles on the pine tree from a greater distance than normal. Nothing I've read (admittedly a couple of articles) speaks of actual improved gameplay.
I get it, the PS4 is a hardcore gaming unit first, it doesn't mean it can't have synergy with what came before and play your 3D movie and now UHD. I'm still miffed they couldn't spend the $2 and have it play CD's.
One thing I'm curious to see once it's out in the wild is how the TV detecting works. Supposedly it can tell what kind of TV you have and then optimize the performance for that TV. How much you want to bet that it screws up and has gorgeous graphics at low frame rates or vice versa? I'm not trying to be overly pessimistic, this stuff just never seems to work right haha.
Yeah the "S" does that too. It was very interesting because it had issues until I moved to a different 18GB Cable. So I would guess the 4K madness we have been seeing will continue. The 4K HDMI cable world is a total mess and even certified 18GB cables sometimes work other times don't.
In fact, at a developer roundtable right after the reveal event, a developer flat out said that the improvements were purely cosmetic and gameplay wouldn't be impacted at all. But if that's your view, then why do you care about UHD vs. bluray, or UHD vs. DVD for that matter. It's the same movie, who cares how clear it looks or how good it sounds?
The Pro is aiming at hardcore gamers and enthusiasts who want to see the 4K and HDR difference. Anyone else can get the regular/slim and be more than happy with that.
For patches to get improved graphics, yeah some games might require you to buy it. Honestly, I'm not entirely surprised because its more work that wasn't budgeted/accounted for during development. But this is probably only dealing with already-released games from a year or two ago. Going forward, I doubt you'll see that happening with brand new releases and they'll support 4K/HDR right away.
Regarding detecting your TV, I believe HDCP allows that already. Most devices and consoles automatically detect your TV's resolution and can adjust output to match it, IIRC. The big difference now is that Sony is using this as a way for developers to optimize games around resolution, HDR, or framerate.
LOL, no shit, that's because the PS4 absolutely sucks as a blu-ray player. They couldn't even release a media remote control for it. I have both the PS3 and PS4, and I still use the PS3 as my dedicated blu-ray player because it's light years ahead of the PS4 in that department.
Of course more people are going to stream if that's the only viable option.