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PS3: November $499 & $599 Configurations

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by Kyle_D, May 8, 2006.

  1. Craig Sherman

    Craig Sherman Stunt Coordinator

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    Derek, that is a frightening proposition. Could you imagine somebody buying the premium model, plugging the HDMI into their snazzy 1080p display, and popping in a BD of say, The Fifth Element (a reference disc, to be sure) and getting a "will not play movies" message? It would spell pandaemonium.

    Has anyone gotten official word that the PS3 will, in fact, play BD movies? Please share.

    CS
     
  2. Jean-Michel

    Jean-Michel Supporting Actor

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    BD-Video playback was specifically mentioned in the press conference ("Not only will Playstation 3 support Blu-ray Video..."). It's about a quarter of the way through this IGN video (warning: large download). My suspicion is they're not showing BD-Video playback because the current hardware doesn't support it -- I'm pretty sure all the PS3 stuff at the show is being run from devkits or other non-finalized hardware and it's not a given that those units can actually handle BD-Video. I saw a photo of what was alleged to be a current PS3 devkit (can't find it now, alas) and it didn't appear to have an optical drive at all.
     
  3. Nils Luehrmann

    Nils Luehrmann Producer

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    Well said. Maybe Ryan has never compared the sales revenue of PS2 games to Xbox. Not only does Sony continue to generate more revenue from PS2 games than Microsoft does with their Xbox, but in addition Microsoft's Xbox is still over $2.5 billion dollars in the red and wont likely ever turn a profit for their original Xbox now that the 360 is slowly replacing it. Fortunately for Microsoft, losing a few billion means very little to them, especially when they are trying to corner the gaming market.
     
  4. Rob_Walton

    Rob_Walton Second Unit

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    The art budget for a game isn't just dependent on the resolution it's displayed at, and that's not even the key aspect to consider. It's a factor of the type of game produced (side scrolling vs first person) and the textures/lighting/effects that the game will incorporate. The consoles have been more advanced than average PCs at launch time (before being overtaken again) for a few generations now, so there doesn't appear to be any change in this regard.

    One of the main aspects of developing for the PC which adds cost is the fractured nature of the format. There are a wide range of hardware solutions which all have to be adapted for, with the game being made compatible with all of them (graphics cards, sound cards, etc). Seeing as a large percentage of PC users remain CD-ROM only (about 28% last I read) there are also severe limitations on any developer wishing to sell to the maximum market possible.

    For what it's worth I've read that the developers are so far planing on releasing titles pretty much proportionately with their practices on current gen players. EA for instance have 20 games for the 360 currently in development but have confirmed that they have even more in the pipe line for the PS3. The words of one publishing rep (not for EA) on this issue - "We have commitments to all formats and it's still early days, but right now our publishing plan hasn't changed much from last-gen: we're committed to about 50% to PS3, 30% to 360, and 20% to Revolution (Wii)."
     
  5. Greg T

    Greg T Stunt Coordinator

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    Latest poll results for A/V enthusiasts...not counting gamers for the PS3 and BD playback from the poll at AVS.

    Stand alone BD player 103 29.77%
    Ps3 as a BD player 183 52.89%
    Both 72 20.81%

    So now you not only have gamers wanting a PS3,you also have a group of A/V enthusiast that also want one.
    Expect these to be even harder to find than normal....and flea Bay pricing to be in the upper stratosphere.

    Buy the time these are actually available on store shelves, they will have come down in price as usual, and if marketed correctly, they will have an affect on HD optical....even if its only to make more average consumers aware of HD optical....and yet another reason to invest in an hdtv display...or in my case, a second hdtv display.

    Rumour has it that Sony ect, have a huge marketing budget for BD/PS3...and that should actually help both formats imo....in the long run.

    We don't need two more poorly marketed formats like dvd-a/sa-cd....but so far, hd dvd has had fairly hard to notice marketing imo.
     
  6. Derek Ambrose

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    Well that is a relief, thanks for the info. Though it is still possible that Sony could package a seperate remote that unlocks Blu-Ray movie potential as the original Xbox did with dvd.

    Please do not consider this as hunting for things to complain about the PS3, I am a gamer who would love the PS3 to deliver what Sony claims. I just do not see the roll out of the PS3 as anywhere near approaching the level of DVD home penetration that the PS2 had.

    Like any new system launch Sony has begun to cut back on original claims (2 HDMI ports etc.) in order to make the unit more affordable. But I was surprised after all the Sony posing about the "1 SKU PS3", and mocking the 360 x 2 roll out, that they decided to go with two SKU's. Plus, the core unit does not seem upgradable to the premium capability.

    Derek Ambrose
     
  7. Derek Ambrose

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    I have no problem with the price and what you get. But let's be realistic about expectations on PS3 performance. After all I had to prop my PSOne on it's side after a few months and, not to open that old can of worms, the PS2 had more than it's share of bugs. At one point I had to play my PS2 completely upside down for it to work. I know some people had no problems with their units, but a lot of PS2 users purchased multiple consoles over the years.

    Plus I never used the DVD playback on the console. It was pretty bad. Yes, for some people it will be the only way to get Blu-Ray, but Blu-Ray is ALL about improved image and audio. DVD was so much more. If the BD drive is not up to other units it will be noticed.

    Has there been any further news on the PS3 acting as a PVR and how that function will roll out in the future?

    Derek
     
  8. Nick Laslett

    Nick Laslett Stunt Coordinator

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    A couple of points:

    A lot of consoles have had interesting architectures that were not that common. Sega Saturn, Playstation 2, Atari Jaguar.

    Console game developers appear to be especially talented at getting the best out of this unusual hardware. The PS2 could be described as a virtual trainer for how developers will have to code to get the most out of the PS3.

    The Xbox360 also has an In-Order processor with multiple cores (3) and multiple threads (2 per core = 6). Sony and Microsoft both appear to believe the future lies with processors like this.

    The low res nature of TV displays and polygon limits of the Xbox / PS2 hardware actually mean that a lot of an artist's time is spent downgrading artwork and textures to fit the constraints of the system. Art assets will be easier to finalise on the Xbox360 and PS3.

    I would recommend anyone worried about how good games will look on these console visit the Konami website and watch the Metal Gear Solid trailer.

    http://ruliwebfile.dreamwiz.com/mpeg...4_full_ps3.wmv

    This easily rivals modern action movies with it's visuals and as the game still has another year in development you can expect the finished results to be even more impressive. The good thing about this footage is that it is already in-game and is not a CG render. Oh and the streaming footage is pretty low res, the finished game will be 720p.
     
  9. Kyle_D

    Kyle_D Second Unit

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    ...not counting gamers

    That's the rub. PS3 is still essentially a game machine in the eyes of the mainstream public. You assume gamers want the PS3. They might, but the price has to be reasonable in their eyes. Do you really think a mainstream public that has almost *no* interest in replacing their DVDs is going to be willing to pay $200 more than the Xbox360 when both systems share most of the same games and the games don't look any better? I have a feeling non-A/V enthusiast gamers (which represent the bulk) are going to take one look at the price tag and decide the 360 (or the Wii) is better for them.


    That poll represented A/V ENTHUSIASTS, not the mainstream, and it's the mainstream that Sony is counting on to lap the PS3 up and embrace Blu-Ray.
     
  10. Nils Luehrmann

    Nils Luehrmann Producer

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    They don't share many games for one thing, and many top-selling games have exclusive initial release platforms, but speculating that a game designed for the Xbox using their limited standard DVD capacity and processor is going to look and perform the same as a game developed for the PS3 and its core processor on a 25GB and eventually 50GB Blu-ray disc is quite the stretch.

    Three of the top game developers have already been making public announcements on how thrilled they are to be able to take full advantage of the PS3's performance capabilities and Blu-ray technology. So yes, I think it is safe to say that there will be quite a few high profile games on the PS3 that will knock the socks of anything the Xbox 360 has to offer.

    Now consider the price difference, and $100-$200 adds up to a whopping 2-4 games, or maybe a years worth of rentals for a very casual gamer. Judging by the amount of games these consumers buy and rent in just a year, $200 is hardly enough to sway any consumer unless of course they are mislead by those who suggest there wont be any performance advantage or better games on the PS3.

    And of course if that gamer is interested in adding the HD DVD player to an Xbox 360 (which will only be connected via USB, wont support 1080p, or any HD audio) then there is no cost difference, only a performance advantage for the PS3.
     
  11. Kyle_D

    Kyle_D Second Unit

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  12. Brian-W

    Brian-W Screenwriter

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    You've been able to get a complete computer for less than a PS3 for the last five years. PS3 changes nothing. An PC equivalent to PS3 is still past $1k (an NVidia PS3 equivalent graphics card is still $500, Blu-Ray drive $1k)

    As for the rest of your hypothesis on game development, you're way off base.
     
  13. Ryan-G

    Ryan-G Supporting Actor

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    Really? How? There's another explanation for the art teams being twice the size of even the programmers? Or the low-res graphics for X-box/PS2 cost the same as the high res PC graphics?

    You guys should also poke around the internet a little more. General consensus is that PS3 isn't a good buy on most sites. Sony's forgotten it's core audience is low-mid income families, and a $500-600 dollar console isn't in their future. They get consoles because they're cheaper than PC's, sole motivation is cost.

    Probably also should check out the E3 reports, where X-box 360 and PC has twice the showing that PS3 does. Along with an increasing number of reporters expressing disappointment with PS3 at E3.

    I'll also point out, the list of titles someone above me countered with are almost completely niche titles. Grand Turismo has done everything it can, and the only thing a new GT could boast is "Now with prettier graphics!", which EA can tell you doesn't sell games anymore. Metal Gear is the only one out of that list.

    More entertaining than that, out of that list of "A-list" titles, only Metal Gear and Grand Turismo have PS3 versions announced.

    Edit:

    http://www.gamespot.com/e3/e3games.h...popular&page=1

    E3
     
  14. Nils Luehrmann

    Nils Luehrmann Producer

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    So basically Kyle what you are saying is that if anyone other than "truly hardcore gamers and technophiles" buy the PS3 then your speculation and assumptions where not accurate after all. Well we will know for sure in a few months.

    As for All the hype behind the PS3 having been pretty much revealed to have been just that, hype., last I checked, the PS3 wasn't out yet. Until it is, and actual games are made available, everything, including all the anti-PS3 talk is technically speaking, "hype". That being said, there was a lot of hype about it having a Blu-ray drive, 1080p support, a core CPU, 20G HD, as well as many other features and they all "appear" to be coming true. So how did you come to the conclusion that all that hype was revealed to be just that, hype? Seems as if the vast majority of the original specs are still in place for the premium model and even added a few, and now they are also offering an economy model. For someone who claims not to be an Xbox fan boy (but does own one), you sure have a tendency to exaggerate the facts for the benefit of Microsoft's Xbox.

    Who knows, maybe you are right and the PS3’s will languish on store shelves and in warehouses, while Microsoft succeeds in cornering the gaming market. I suspect you’ll find though that the vast majority of industry analysts, not vocal biased speculators on the internet agree that PS3 as it stands now will succeed in the marketplace, and perhaps even outsell the 360 despite the cost differences.
     
  15. Robin Warren

    Robin Warren Second Unit

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    "$200 is hardly enough to sway any consumer unless of course they are mislead by those who suggest there wont be any performance advantage or better games on the PS3."


    This is a ridiculous statement. $200.00 is HUGE to the moms and dad's out there who are looking to placate their kids who are demanding a video game system for christmas.


    "I suspect you’ll find though that the vast majority of industry analysts, not vocal biased speculators on the internet agree that PS3 as it stands now will succeed in the marketplace, and perhaps even outsell the 360 despite the cost differences."

    Pure speculation at best! From the press that I have seen lately, including small town newspapers, the E3 showing was a bust with the huge price leading the headlines. I have a bad feeling for Sony on this one.
     
  16. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    I'd say a large amount of people buying PS3 will already have X-Box 360. Yeah, if a parent is looking for one or the other then they'll get the X-Box but if the kid already got that last year, mommy or daddy will be spending the extra $200 to make junior happy. God forbid, he be emotionally scarred when all of his friends get one and he doesn't. [​IMG]
     
  17. Robin Warren

    Robin Warren Second Unit

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    I'd say a large amount of people buying PS3 will already have X-Box 360.


    I agree that a lot of "midnight" buyers will likely own both units, but after the initial surge of sales, the soccer moms will be out in force. And to a lot of them, $200 is going to be a deal breaker. I just can't see this being a success for Sony. I think it will actually drive up sales of Xbox if the production and distribution of new 360 units is sound for this holiday season.

    (I will own both units, so I am not trying to crap on Sony here.....)
     
  18. Ryan-G

    Ryan-G Supporting Actor

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    http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2262

    Headline: Taiwanese Insiders skeptical over PS3 Sales Targets

    Quote: The pricing of the PS3 (US$499 for the 20GB model and US$599 for the 60GB model) is so high as to make consumers hesitate; the PS3 features built-in Blu-ray Disc (BD) compatibility, but currently the availability of BD players and drives is very limited, and the price level is very high. As well, the appeal to BD compatibility for the PS3 may be unfavorable to successful marketing of BD players and drives by Sony and other brands.

    The only thing people are hearing about PS3 right now is that price tag, the only thing Sony's showing at E3 right now is a lackluster list of titles, and the Blue-Ray drive wouldn't be a selling point for several years until HD-TV reaches critical mass.

    I just don't see any momentum here at all for PS3.
     
  19. Brian-W

    Brian-W Screenwriter

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    Bringing up a game from 1995 isn't the same as a game today. Every team I've worked on has had substantially more programmers than artists. Additionally, given the specialties of game development, it isn't simply about programmers and artists any longer.

    And a little FYI - it takes more time to do a low res model than a high res model. It takes time to create something 'pretty' or 'photorealistic' with very few polygons than it does higher polys.
     
  20. Jason Harbaugh

    Jason Harbaugh Cinematographer

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    Why are soccer mom's and parents in general always brought up when the price of consoles is discussed? At last count, gamers under the age of 18, as in those most likely to have the console bought for them, are now the smallest gaming demographic. Face it, gamers have grown up and a good amount of them have the money to spend.

    Nothing personal against anyone here, it just always seems to be the weakest argument most commonly used by naysayers.

    But all that aside, the $500 price was to be expected, but the two tier system and $600 for the full PS3 makes me a little more hesitent, especially with the very poor E3 presentation. I'm as die hard for blu-ray as they come but man, Sony keeps failing to step up to the plate. It reminds me a lot of how I felt after getting the original Xbox and more so for the 360. That was enough to keep me from jumping on the 360, wonder if it will be enough to keep me from jumping on the PS3...

    Maybe I'll continue to stick to PC gaming (which is looking better than ever) and just wait for price drops and cheaper standalone or PC drive Blu-ray players.
     

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