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Prometheus (2012)

Discussion in 'Movies' started by SWFF, Nov 26, 2011.

  1. Dennis Castro

    Dennis Castro Second Unit

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    I don't think it's a leap at all.
    Janek being a ship Captain very likley has some sort of military background. Someone with military background would easily recognize a military outpost. Add to that it appears that they were stockpiling those cylinders like one would stockpile weapons or ammunition. It seems as though they weren't meant for anything good at least as far as humanity is concerned. It's also apparent that in production of these cylinders and what they contained something had gone horribly wrong.
    It's quite obviuos that this is not the Engineer's home planet. That it is some sort of outpost or station of dome kind.
    Holloway does make a comment that about it being "just another tomb"
     
  2. Sean Bryan

    Sean Bryan Sean Bryan

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    I liked Prometheus. There are certainly some issues, but overall I thought it was an interesting concept and an entertaining film.
    From my own viewing, I took the following away from the story:
    -The Engineers were shown to seed a world with their DNA (presumably ancient Earth). Our DNA matches that of the Engineers.
    -The Engineers visited ancient Earth after Humanity had developed civilizations, and they left information for Humanity for how to find them when they reached the necessary technological stage (pictograms showing humans around the larger Engineers and the star map).
    -Approximately 2,000 years ago, the Engineers seemed to have decided to head to Earth with a ship full of "bioweapons" (it's a presumption by the characters, and the audience, that these are bioweapons, but it fits).
    -The Engineers lost control of the "bioweapons" and were wiped out, but a few managed to get to their stasis pods. One survived the 2 millenia.
    -When awoken by Humans, the Engineer killed them and attempted to complete his original mission to take the bioweapons to Earth (though his intentions/motivations are just assumed by the characters, his actions seems to go along with that assumption).
    -David spent about two years (while the rest of the crew was in hypersleep) studying ancient languages (and also watching Shaw's dreams).
    -David's priority was learning whatever he could, as quickly as he could, that could potentially be of use to Peter Weiland, who was of consideraby advanced age.
    -David's knowledge of ancient languages and the fact that his brain is a highly advanced supercomputer helped him to easily figure out, or intuit, how to operate some of the controls on the Engineer ship.
    -I don't recal if David's communication with Weyland (using the yellow visor) took place before or after he did the "experiment" on Holloway. But I took his motivations as simply that the crew was expendable and finding out anything that could help Weyland as quickly as possible was the priority. When David found the "dark goo", he wanted/needed to learn it's effects on humans as quickly as possible. Following strict scientific and ethical protocols in experimentation can be a very slow process. Also, maybe David not liking Holloway colored his decision to do that as well.
    Now, exactly what the "black goo" is supposed to do, and how all of the various forms of creatures we saw fit into the bigger picture of how the Engineers' bioweapon technology works is quite hazy.
    What did we see?
    We saw an Engineer on an ancient planet (Earth) drink what looked like this black goo. Is my memory correct in that what he consumed looked like what we later see to the urns? Anyway, this seemed to cause him to dissolve into genetic material that can seed life.
    We saw that when Holloway consumed a tiny amount of the goo from the urn, he seemed to get sick within a day. He had that weird worm-like protrusion from his eye. Near the end he looked all "veiny", similar to what we had seen on the Engineer before he dissolved. So what would have happened to Holloway had he not been incinerated? Would he have dissolved? Would he have mutated into some type of creature or become some type of "super zombie" like the geologist (forgot his name)?
    After being infected, Holloway slept with Shaw and this basically impregnated her with an "alien" embryo that is squid-like. That then goes on to get HUGE after being removed. It attacks the Engineer and, in face hugger fashion, shot an embryo down his gullet that eventually births as something similar to the alien form we're more familiar with from previous films.
    Is this the first time this "form" of alien has existed? Was it the chance result of something that originalted with Holloway, gestated in Shaw, then gestated in the Engineer that led to this "familiar" form? That doesn't seem quite right to me since there was a depiction of this form of "alien" on the walls/ceiling of the urn chamber. So this form can't have been "new". But then that seems like quite a convoluted life cycle to get there.
    In the urn chamber, we saw the snake-like creature attack and go down the throat of the scientist. What became of that other that his death? Did that result in a gestation of something that came out of him? All we saw of him was his dead body. When they found him, was the parasite still in his mouth? I can't remember.
    When the geologist tried to cut of the snake-like creature he got sprayed with what seemed like acid-blood that melted his helmet, and he fell face first into the black goo. Is that right? Then we later see that he has become a zombie-like killing machine. Is that what would have happened to Holloway? If the geologist raped someone in this state would they have had a squid-like alien embryo inside them???
    The "mechanics" or life cycle of the stuff shown in the film is pretty ambiguous.
    As for David getting the urn back on the ship unnoticed? He put it in his bag, and there was a huge storm right behind them as they fled back to the ship. I never for one second thought it odd that he brought it back unnoticed.
    As for the Engineer being outside without a helmet. They said that the atmosphere of the planet was an oxigen/nitrogen atmosphere similar to Earth, just that the CO2 levels were too high and would be toxic to us "after a few minutes". I'm guesing that this huge, ancient super-human can tolerate higher levels of CO2 for longer than us. No big deal there.
    As for the crew taking their helmets off, yep that was kind of sloppy. In the movie's defense, they said the the air in the installation (ship) was "breathable" and "cleaner than Earth" before he removed the helmet. They'd probably say that the "cleaner than Earth" line implies that their scanners showed no signs of biological contaminents in the air either. But I agree that it's sloppy, and would be way too reckless to take that kind of chance in the situation they were in.
    It was also sloppy that the two scientists left to go back to the ship, but then got lost while the others returned after they left, and no one noticed until later. Weren't they in communication with Prometheus and the others? That was sadly just a poorly executed plot device.
    Agreed about the behavior of the scientist with regards to the snake-like creature. Their actions were completely out of character with the story up to that point. These guys were freaked out by the chamber and left the group to go back early. They get "lost" on their way back so they have to stay in the installation, but instead of staying as close to the exit as possible they go back to the urn chamber? If they didn't earlier bug out and leave the group to get away from there it would have worked better (like if they were gung ho about the discovery and chose to stay behind), but it was already established that they wanted nothing to do with it and were freaked out by it. Going back there was a poorly executed plot device.
    Then on top of that, they saw all the bodies of the Engineers, which would have freaked them out even more and put them even more on guard. But when they see an alien like form poping up snake-like from the goo, the dude gets all curious like it's "cute"?? Again, what the hell happened with the writting and directing with this whole sequence of events?
    But overall, I thought it was really cool. But the bigger picture, as ambiguous as it is, worked better for me than parts of the immediate story for reasons like the above.
    So if the Engineers seeded Earth with their genetic material and visited human civilizations throughout history, why did they "seemingly" decide to get rid of us 2,000 years ago? What could have possibly taken place on Earth 2,000 years ago that would have any significance to a powerful "creator" alien race? Could it be that the decadence of the Roman Empire got their attention? Could they have sent an emmisary with para-human abilities through a "virgin" birth? Could the crucifiction of their emmisary have been the last straw that lead them to decide to wipe us out? Would there wanting to wipe us out be due to simply ange at what we'd become, or was it more along the lines that seeing our hostile nature made them want to eliminate us before we became too technologically advanced and would one day be aggressive against them?
    I had a somewhat different thought at one point. Maybe Earth was nothing more than a laboratory for them. They seed it with their DNA, and let humanoid (human) life develop there. Then perhaps they use these humans (us) to see what kind of new creatures they can develop by gestating in us. Why the star map then? The thought I had was that they would do that to basically let them know when we got too advanced and it would then be time to end the experiment. If we deveolp the technology to find them and travel to them, then they know its time to get rid of us. The problem with that theory is that the movie establishes (through charatcer supposition/assumption) that they set out to destroy 2,000 years ago. So the idea of them destroying us when we get advanced enough to find them falls apart with that idea and again brings us back to the idea that they "changed their minds" about us for some reason 2,000 years ago. And the space-jesus thing is a really cool idea.
    If there is a sequal I wonder it it will follow Shaw and David further into the search for our origins or if it will be more to link between this and "ALIEN". Maybe both. But as it stands, there are some things that need to be addressed if you want to offically link the two series.
    Despite what happened to the Prometheus and it's crew, The Weyland corporation new exactly where Prometheus was going. They have the coordinates. If there is no further communication between Prometheus and Weyland corporation, there would have to be an investigation. So do people from Weyland eventually go back to the planet? There'd still be "bioweapons" there. An investigation probably wouldn't go well. But eventually the corporation would have to get some info on what is there. But in the ALIEN films, there doesn't seem to be a knowledge of it. Or maybe there is enough knowledge about the existance of potential alien bioweapons that they'd like to get their hands on but don't currently have. Doesn't MOTHER have some prior knowledge that there may be a valuable alien species worth investigating and has directives that the crew is expendable in order to find it?
     
  3. Tommy R

    Tommy R Screenwriter

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    :jawdrop: I couldn't disagree more. It seems a lot of people are putting a lot of criticism in it's un-connection with "Alien". I understand feeling a little let down in that department, but I don't find it that big of a deal. Ridley has always said he was interested in the "space jockey" race, and knowing more about them and such. And Prometheus does just that. We aren't spoon fed an entire history of them, but I feel I know a LOT more now about "what that space jockey thing is" than I did before watching Prometheus, even if we don't kno the specific story of that specific craft from Alien.
    As for more specific criticisms about the human characters' actions/David's agenda/etc., I didn't find anything jarring while I was watching the movie, but reading the comments thus far I can see valid points made and that perhaps things could have been handled a little better on the screen writing side. I sincerely hope that there is 30 minutes more of the movie that can be put back on the blu-ray release. Ridley has a good track record with putting longer versions of his films on home video, so I think we may be in luck.
    All in all, I loved the film, and hope that there's some sort of continuation with a sequel. Not necessarily to answer questions in a "movie plot" way, but perhaps to pose more thought provoking questions that I didn't even think to ask before and open my mind to new and exciting possibilities.
     
  4. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member
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    I just got back from Prometheus and thought it was a beautifully designed mess. Bizarrely paced and plagued by more than a few glaring gaps in logic, it doesn't really know what it wants to be. I felt that the whole space jockey "explanation" was a letdown - poorly presented and surprisingly shallow considering its ramifications. I have to agree with comments from two other reviews that I've read - 1) There were a lot of supposedly smart people doing a number of very stupid things in this film and 2) While Prometheus aspires to ask the big question, "Where does the human race comes from?", it doesn't have the gravitas to make what's presented feel like it really matters or be particularly interesting. What we get instead is a final act wherein a member of the race that supposedly created mankind lumbers around like a mindless golem, killing people. On the positive side the production design and special effects are amazingly good and there are several good performances. Michael Fassbender in particular does a wonderful job as David. However in the end there wasn't a single character that I really gave a damn about, and in a film like this being emotionally invested in the characters is paramount. Scott failed in this regard.

    I was hoping for more and realize that this movie had a lot of unrealistic expectations attached, but for me it wasn't particularly engaging and didn't completely hold my interest for its running time. Not quite boring, but close. While it may not literally be a prequel to Alien, anyone who sees Prometheus and doesn't think it's a very direct link-in is missing something IMO.

    I'd give it two and a half stars out of four.
     
  5. Jason_V

    Jason_V Lead Actor

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    Here's how I rationalized it: David's sole purpose seems to have been to find something-anything-to keep the old man alive. He found the black goo and instead of testing it on someone who had a myriad of health problems, he tested it on someone young and healthy. When Charlie couldn't take it, David crossed it off the list of "miracles cures."

    One thing I did thing was right on the nose was Vickers attitude toward Charlie. She wanted him dead so he didn't bring any contaminant aboard the ship. If the folks in the first Alien had done the same, they wouldn't have had the mess of problems they did.

    (Part of me thinks the ship we saw lift off at the end of the movie will be the one Ripley, et al. find in Alien. Just putting that out there right now...)
     
  6. Dennis Castro

    Dennis Castro Second Unit

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    I don't think it's a leap at all.
    Janek being a ship Captain very likley has some sort of military background. Someone with military background would easily recognize a military outpost. Add to that it appears that they were stockpiling those cylinders like one would stockpile weapons or ammunition. It seems as though they weren't meant for anything good at least as far as humanity is concerned. It's also apparent that in production of these cylinders and what they contained something had gone horribly wrong.
    It's quite obviuos that this is not the Engineer's home planet. That it is some sort of outpost or station of dome kind.
    Holloway does make a comment that about it being "just another tomb"
     
  7. Dennis Castro

    Dennis Castro Second Unit

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    Smart people do stupid things all the time. If the smart people in the film made all of the right and logical decisions then we would have a really boring film now wouldn't we? LOL!


    That's quite an assumption about beings that we know very little about.

    Who's to say that the engineers aren't just that? Engineers carrying out a task for their superiors?

    Wouldn't it make sense that if one was intelligent enough to engineer life and create these "bio-weapons" that one would train others to do a task that is so dangerous?
     
  8. cafink

    cafink Producer

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    There are plenty of exciting, suspenseful films with characters whose actions are consistent and in line with the kinds of characterizations they're suggested to have. If the only way to make a film interesting is to set up the characters one way (intelligent), then have them act totally contrary to that (acting decidedly unintelligently), then that is a flaw in the movie that could have been corrected with a more carefully crafted screenplay.
    "They had to do that to make the movie interesting" explains WHY the movie has this flaw, but it doesn't excuse the flaw or make it go away.
     
  9. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    I'd be willing to bet that it was a choice of the director rather than something that was in the script. If something like that had been specified in the script, any of the actors or the director or basically anyone who read the script would have questioned the logic of the characters doing that. However, their concerns took a backseat to Scott making sure that the audience knew who was who (and while you can easily say that it makes the characters look dumb, I think he made the best call in the end).
     
  10. Kevin EK

    Kevin EK Producer
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    I believe that the ship found in ALIEN on LV-426 is something completely separate from the ships seen in this movie. It is the same kind of ship, and is being operated by an Engineer, and it has the eggs we remember from 1979 in it.

    But it isn't one of the ships we just saw in Prometheus. One of those ships crashed onto LV-223, the facility planet, and the other one took off with Shaw and David, presumably to go to the Engineers' homeworld. I don't believe that all the Engineers are necessarily dead - but the ones at this facility planet certainly are.

    As for Janek figuring out what the facility is - I still don't see where he makes the connection. The cargo hold room with all the stacked canisters is discovered after Janek makes his comment, and Shaw takes that moment to confirm what Janek was saying. The earlier room with the large head doesn't look like a weapons room - if anything it looks more like a cathedral. Which may be part of the point.
     
  11. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member
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    If the film had been cohesive and self-aware enough to suggest these possibilities then perhaps that line of thinking would work. It didn't as far as I'm concerned. One of the main problems I had with the whole concept is that we're presented with a race of beings so advanced that they have the technical ability to create life and seed entire planets with it, yet they're STILL manufacturing weapons of mass destruction. I find that trite.

    As for your comment about smart people making all of the right decisions equaling a "boring film", I disagree completely. Sometimes the most interesting situations arise when people do everything right, only to have it all blow up in their faces anyway due to forces beyond their control. And I have no problem with fallible characters making bad choices, but what we have in Prometheus on multiple occasions is stupid decision making that goes against the very nature of the people involved - scientists and a seasoned spacecraft crew who are on a trillion dollar mission to possibly discover the very origin of the human race. That doesn't equate to excitement for me. It's just sloppy filmmaking IMO.

    But you know, the good thing about film is that we're all different and can like (and not like) different things. Movies work largely on an emotional level, which is why we're so drawn to them. What I connect with and what you connect won't always be the same. This is good.
     
  12. Dennis Castro

    Dennis Castro Second Unit

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    Perhaps that's it?
    We were just an experiment. A means to an end. We served our purpose and they decided to move on and destroy us or change us genetically and move on with the experiment. In doing so something went horribly awry.
    There was a conversation between David and Holloway were David asked Holloway why we created beings like him. Holloway suggested that because we can. David responded by asking; How would you feel if you got that answer from your creator?
    The star map...
    Perhaps they showed it to ancient people never intending on us being around long enough to develop the technology to make contact?
    We weren't supposed to show up? That's the feeling I got. We weren't supposed to he there. Hence the angry and violent reaction?
     
  13. Dennis Castro

    Dennis Castro Second Unit

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    Well said and I agree about our differences being a good thing. :)
     
  14. Dennis Castro

    Dennis Castro Second Unit

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    Also well said and I agree:)
     
  15. JonZ

    JonZ Lead Actor

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    Maybe its that I was able to stay pretty far way away from any info for this film... but I always thought it shared the Alien Universe, and would contain a backstory for the Space Jockey, but not much more. I wasnt expecting to see a Alien appearance and was kind of suprised they threw that in.


    About that last shot - wasnt that a studio pressure added scene? It seemed that way to me. Scott said another 2 films would be necessary to catch up with where Alien starts.

    Again, I understand the connections that most of you have mentioned, but I thought it was always understood that Prometheus was going to do its own thing and have its own mythology - apart from the events of the Alien films.
     
  16. WillG

    WillG Lead Actor

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    They would have to have traveled pretty far to get to LV-426. The planet they were on was two years from Earth and in the Original "Alien" the distance was stated to be 6 months from LV-426 to Earth. This would mean the planet the Prometheus crew went to was at least four times as far from Earth as LV-426. And the Nostromo is obviously a way more primitive ship than Prometheus, so it stands to reason that Prometheus is considerably faster than the Nostromo.
    But I'm not sure it really could be the same ship Shaw and David were traveling in anyway. One thought I had during the movie was that it was going to end with Shaw getting into the Space Jockey suit on the chair on the bridge which might have offered some connection. But what we see in Alien is that whoever was on the Bridge in the Derelict had been impregnated. Also, the body was fossilized which would indicate it would have had to have been there for a long time. While I'm not exactly sure what year "Alien" takes place in, I think was still the not too distant future from the year Prometheus took place in. Of course, the Derelict in Alien had the eggs that we know today, so one could assume that the "engineers" on the Derelict were working on something slightly different. Also, another question about the Derelict was why the egg chamber was accessed thought a hole of the floor of the bridge, while this was not a necessity on the planet Prometheus was investigating?
     
  17. mattCR

    mattCR Executive Producer
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    Or technology improved and you could go farther distances in less time.
     
  18. Steve_Tk

    Steve_Tk Cinematographer

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    Something I just remembered. When they walked into the room with urns, we see a boot step on two small inch worms. Presumably, those inch worms crawled into the black ooze and mutated to the big snakes. Humans in the black ooze turn them to zombies.
    So why are people assuming the ooze was meant to kill, when in the movie it only appears it mutates the life that comes into contact with it. Wonder if the ooze was just another way for the engineers to test on their subjects they've created. At some point that ooze went awry and killed the original engineers, as seen in the hologram. Who knows at that time what the ooze mutated with, maybe some sort of life that was already on that planet (which we never see). The familiar xenomorph at the end is probably the first of it's kind because it's probably the first time a mutated human impregnates a human to give birth to a facesucker, who then latches on to an engineer type.
     
  19. Henry Gale

    Henry Gale Producer

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    Forgive for not scanning the entire thread.
    Roger Ebert has given the 3D version a thumbs up.
    Can anyone tell me if I should catch this in IMAX 3D, or regular 3D?
     
  20. Dennis Castro

    Dennis Castro Second Unit

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    Entertainment Weekly had an article on Prometheus. In it it stated that the film takes place 38 years before the events in Alien.
     

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