Progressive Scan? / Pioneer Gripe

Discussion in 'Displays' started by TimmH, Mar 23, 2003.

  1. TimmH

    TimmH Auditioning

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    I'm hoping someone out there can straighten me out. I currently have a Pioneer Elite RP TV, which has turned out to be...well...trash. And I'm not that picky. I could go on, but let's say that I am sure ANYONE here would be VERY upset if they got this TV. It is going back...

    Anyway, my HT "guru" sold me this TV along with a non-progressive DVD player. He tells me that I don't need a progressive DVD player because the doubler in the TV is very good (I'm paraphrasing). Does this sound right? This led me to more searching...don't all/most HDTVs have line doublers? If they do, why do some people tell you that you MUST have a progressive scan DVD player to reap the full benefits of an HDTV??? Please help an ignorant newbie (this whole post might not even make sense...)!!!

    T
     
  2. George_W_K

    George_W_K Screenwriter

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    What don't you like about your tv? Which size did you get? Have you tried calibrating it with Avia or Video Essentials? (I am assuming the picture is disappointing you.) Are you sure the tv is not broken? I cannot answer your progressive scan question because I don't have a digital tv yet. I can say that everytime I've gone to an AV store, they have always had the DVD player do the progressive scanning, instead of the tv. That includes the Elite, I've been considering buying one. That doesn't mean the tvs out there don't do it well, I am just saying that's what I've seen.

    Anyway, back to the calibration thing. If you haven't done that, it will improve your picture. Did you set up all of the convergence points?

    There's plenty of others in here that can explain the calibration process better than me so hopefully they chime in.
     
  3. greg_t

    greg_t Screenwriter

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    First off, what model of Elite RPTV do you have? All widescreen sets do have built in line doublers, and the Elite has the best of them all. I got my Elite 530 last Friday and am using it with a Panasonic RP91 progressive scan DVD player. My Elite is nothing short of spectacular. The dvd image is incredible right out of the box with no adjustments other than putting the set in Reference Theater Mode to lower the contrast to acceptable levels. The picture quality is smoother using the RP91's progressive scan, but not by much. The line doubler in the Elite is top notch. Progressive scan can make a big difference on certain sets that don't have very good line doublers. Maybe there is a problem with your set? Maybe you could give us more details such as what model Elite you have, what DVD player you are using, how the dvd player is connected to the TV, what screen mode you are using (user, game, reference theater mode?).

    I would suggest you check the following:

    1. Make sure your dvd player is set to 16x9 mode.
    2. Set the TV to Reference Theater Mode to lower contrast to accepatable levels.
    3. Make sure that you are using the correct screen mode. For example, if watching anamaphoric dvd, make sure screen mode is Full. If non anamaphoric dvd, set to either Zoom or Cinema Wide. If watching regular TV, use Natural Wide.
    4. Check the sets convergance to make sure it is acceptable. See the owners manual for instructions.
    5. If the picture is only bad with DVD, check to make sure cables are seated tightley and swap out with another cable to make sure you don't have a bad cable.
     
  4. TimmH

    TimmH Auditioning

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    Thanks for the inputs so far. Let me elaborate a little bit...

    I have a PRO-520, and I do trust the shop who sold it to me. Currently there are two problems with the set. I have had two techs look at the set, and they both agree... One is a defect on the Green gun. No arguing about that... The second is best described as a color "uniformity" issue. It happens regardless of the source (DVD, SAT), and is most obvious in flesh tones. Both Techs saw it, and I have pictures that show it. It is most prominent when using S-video (aka the line doubler...), and pretty much goes away with component. Unfortunately, most of my viewing is in S-video (besides, I shouldn't have a problem no matter which input I use).

    Pioneer has told me that it is a problem with the doubler only in my "lot" of TVs. I am just getting very tired of waiting for Pioneer to straighten out what went wrong while I sit here with a TV that is worse than one that cost me 5% of the Pioneer. Pioneer has been "working" this issue for over two months now. Everyone tells me how great Pioneer is, but I haven't seen that at all. Enough of me griping...I am really asking this question to prepare for a non-Pioneer replacement.

    T
     
  5. Matthew_Ba

    Matthew_Ba Extra

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    Just curious as to who the dealer is (I am in Maryland also and my primary dealer likes to "push" the Elite RPTVs). You can send a private message if you don't want to shout it to the group.
     
  6. greg_t

    greg_t Screenwriter

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    TimmH,

    I wish you would have asked this question before you bought the 520. The blotchiness on the 20 series Elites, mainly seen on the S-video and composite inputs and especially on flesh tones, have been known for a while. It is why I waited for the 30 series to come out as they don't have this problem. Apparently it is due to a hardware problem of some sort and was fixed sometime during the 20 series production run.

    It's too bad you feel let down by the elite's. Unfortunately all sets are going to have issues. If you can't get your set fixed to your satisfaction, I think the next best below the elite's are the Mitsubishi Diamond and Toshiba's. Good luck.
     
  7. Alan Pummill

    Alan Pummill Screenwriter

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    Sounds like you got a lemon...too bad. I have had my Elite PRO-620HD for about 8 months now and am very, very satisfied!! All in all, they are considered the best on the market.

    If you decide to switch brands, look at the Tosh and Mits.

    Good luck.

    BTW, I recently held a HTF Local Meet at my house and my Elite, (which has been ISF calibrated), blew everyone away!!
     
  8. TimG

    TimG Second Unit

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    Will the dealer not take the tv back and give you a different series? It sounds to me like the dealer is letting you deal with a problem they should be handling. Personally I would ask for an exchange or a refund.

    TimG
     
  9. TimmH

    TimmH Auditioning

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    Thanks for all the input so far.

    Since I still like my dealer (I tried to email you Matthew...it bounced), I am hoping that he will make it all okay, but he has told me that in his experience, Pioneer will only deal with the end customer, and not the dealer themselves. We both think that is backwards, but we are trying it that way, to no avail. I have more or less given up, and am planning to have them take the TV back.

    I do appreciate the suggestions for replacements though...I have yet to decide if I will try the 30 series or swear off Pioneer forever.

    T
     
  10. TimmH

    TimmH Auditioning

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    Just in case anyone still cares...Pioneer is finally fessing up and giving me a new 530 to replace my 520. It only took 5 months...needless to say, I will have to think long and hard about buying another Pioneer product...

    T
     
  11. George_W_K

    George_W_K Screenwriter

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    I care Tim![​IMG]

    Too bad they had to play hard to get with you, but I am glad to hear that you will be getting a new set. Be sure to update us on how you like the new one.
     
  12. TimG

    TimG Second Unit

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    Congrats. [​IMG]

    TimG
     
  13. Aaron H

    Aaron H Supporting Actor

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    COngrats on getting it hopefully resolved. If you still have a question on the line doublers in the TV. I have a Panny RP82 hooked up to a Pioneer 643HD5 tv (64" for $2399 [​IMG] ). This set is suppose to have much of the same electronics (line doubler, stretch modes) at the Elite TV's. I cannot tell a difference with DVD's when I switch between progressive and non-progressive. I guess the TV's line doubler is that good.

    Aaron
     
  14. greg_t

    greg_t Screenwriter

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    The SD643 and SD533 both use the Pure Cinema I from the Elite x10 series. The secrets of home theater and HIFI website included a review of the Pure cinema I in the Elite 510 when they did some progressive scan testing, and they found it to be better than any of Pioneer's progressive scan DVD players of the time. Pretty good for a TV set! Or maybe pretty bad for their dvd players.
     
  15. Scott Tucker

    Scott Tucker Stunt Coordinator

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    Tim, you should never have to deal with a manufacturer if the dealer is a reputable one. Find a new dealer. Elite is not the problem. Also, Why would you have to think twice about Pioneer when they just replaced the tv your dealer should have replaced to begin with? Kudo's to Pioneer. Your dealer should be ashamed. Good luck with the new Elite!

    Scott
     

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