Progressive dvd players vs 4:3 rptv (1 Viewer)

[Brian Treinen]

There is one DVD player on the market, the Malata N996, that will allow the squeeze trick on any 4x3 TV since the scaling capabilities of the player allow the squeeze independently of the TV.
Mr. Blair,
I'm very interested in hearing more about the Malata N996 could you email me with more information?!? I may be in the market for a new player, I was going to wait but if this player is decent and does what you describe I could be bumping up my purchase!

 

[Michael St. Clair]

There is one DVD player on the market, the Malata N996, that will allow the squeeze trick on any 4x3 TV since the scaling capabilities of the player allow the squeeze independently of the TV.

That's not a squeeze, that is variable-height downconversion!

 

[Jason Blaydes]

ok i'm officailly confused!
i'm very new to this stuff so please bear with me, but i originally thought that a progressive scan dvd player improved the video quality of a dvd if you had a tv set the excepted progressive scan images... mine does (480p)
i thought that if you had a bigscreen that progressive scan also helped out alot... i have the toshiba 55h70 (55 in)
now i'm confused becuase i've learned of anamorphic dvd... which i never knew about before.
i've read other post that have said that with the pana rp56, that you should only use progressive scan with anamorphic dvds and all other dvds use interlaced mode.
this post from what i've gathered says that an anamorphic dvd will have no benefit on my type of tv set (a 4:3 set).
so if i'm only supposed to use the progressive mode on anamorphic dvds, and there is no benefit of anamorphic dvds on my set... then isn't it a waste of time and money for me to purchase a progressive scan dvd player?
please someone straighten me out

thanks and peace

 

[Sujeet Patel]

Join the club - I also have a 55H70, was unaware of the details of anamorphic DVDs until after I bought my set, and am now thoroughly confused as to whether I should continue using my PS2 to play DVDs (currently using component cables into the ColorStream ports and it looks great), or if going to an RP56 or something will make a noticable difference (and if so, exactly how and why)?
Now I'll ask a completely ridiculous question, based on info I've gathered from this thread Progressive Scan DVD players output in 480p. This model TV only does the squeeze on 1080i material. Is there such a player or piece of hardware that can output a DVD in 1080i, so as to utilize the TV's built-in support?

 

[Jason Blaydes]

quote: I also have a 55H70, was unaware of the details of anamorphic DVDs until after I bought my set[/quote]
tell me about it... i'm pissed that i didn't do more reviewing. i would have paid the extra 300 or more bucks if i'd known about this. i mean sh¡t i already spent 2 grand, alittle more wouldn't have mattered. guess i'm learning and i've got to make the best of what i have now. so does anyone have any advice on what direction i should take from here? (refer to my post just before this one)
thanks and peace
[Edited last by Jason Blaydes on September 25, 2001 at 05:14 PM]

 

[Darryl_B]

so if i'm only supposed to use the progressive mode on anamorphic dvds, and there is no benefit of anamorphic
dvds on my set... then isn't it a waste of time and money for me to purchase a progressive scan dvd player?

I wouldn't agree that it's a waste of time and money if you get a progressive-scan dvd player. You would gain all the benefits of a progressive-scan signal on all material (anamorphic or non-anamorphic) using your TV set. If I were in your shoes, I order that RP56 and never look back. It's probably the best progressive-scan dvd player bargain that has ever hit the shelves since the introduction of DVDs.

 

[Jason Blaydes]

thanks Darryl_B for answering my questions. i'm considering very hard about ordering that rp56... i just heard so many good things about it and for the price it looks even better.
i was wondering if anyone has had any experience with forcing 4:3 tv sets to "squeeze"? i've been doing some searching and have come across a couple of sites that tell how to force my model toshiba to squeeze the picture so i can gain full advantage of anamorphic dvds. here is a link to one of the sites: http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/usefulinfo/toshiba/anamorphicsqueeze_tosh_55hx70.html

 

[Chuck Blair]

Michael
What do you mean by "That's not a squeeze, that is variable-height downconversion!"?
What is the difference between going into the service menu of a 4x3 set and doing the squeeze and letting the Malata do the squeeze?
I'm not a techie so don't know beans about whether the Malata is doing a true anamorphic squeeze trick or not, but I do have a very good eye, and have several filmmaker friends who have even better eyes who have seen my system, and I can tell you that if you set up the Malata to output a 16x9 image and then go into the x-y scaling menu and use 16 clicks on the down arrow to obtain the proper aspect ratio, for all intents and purposes you will have a 16x9 TV and an image that is indeed on par with an anamorphic image (yep, living in LA I've had plenty of opportunity to see anamorphic discs playing on true 16x9 sets).
John & Brian:
I have the Malata (ordered from www.avdeals.com shipped for $340 for the region 0 option, they also have another version for $290 that is set for the region 1 option and has to be manually configured to play any region other than 1). It's connected to a 7 year old Sony 53" RPTV, model number KP53S55 (or something close to that), 4x3 standard NTSC set. By the way, my ordering experience with Avdeals was very good. They have overnight shipping included in the prices I've listed, but are behind right now on the orders.
The non-interlaced picture is quite good (have not tried progressive picture since my set is not capable). The Malata has now turned what I used to feel was a very good player, my Pioneer Elite DV37, into a $700 doorstop (ok, I'm exaggerating here, but I now only use it for very noisy non-amamorphic discs since it has better noise reduction that the Malata, which does not have any noise reductions controls, though it does have adjustments for color, hue, gamma, brightness, and contrast).
The player is made cheaply, runs just a little hot (though I've hooked up a small fan behind it to cool it down) but has performed flawlessly. I have yet to find a disc that won't play properly on it (from anywhere in the world), which is more than I can say for the DV37. The remote is weak but useable; by using Duv-pro (self-sticking black felt that I used to line the insides of my TV) I was able to pad it to fit comfortably in my hand and give it a little more heft.
The menus on the player are not intuitive, the manual is also weak, but these players are selling very well and support on this website as well as others is readily available. Do a search here and you'll find many posts for further information on this player. AVscience forum and DVDtalk forum are also good, and there is a new support forum at nerd-out.com (don't have the exact address handy at this time).
Sound quality is good, but not quite up to par with my DV37. Most will not have a problem. Has built-in Dolby Digital and DTS decoders, which I don't use.
Features are what set this player apart. The picture is very sharp and has the best gamma control I've yet found in any player, it even makes two of my worst discs, Last Tango in Paris and The Man Who Fell to Earth, look good, greatly enhancing shadow detail over the DV37 without washing out the picture.
I would say this player should be the number one choice for anyone with a 4x3 set that wants to obtain anamorphic picture quality from it or anyone interested in playing discs from other regions, including PAL discs. I've now received or ordered about 30 PAL discs, many of the titles are not available in region 1 in the anamorphic format, or in some cases not avaible in region 1 in any format, such as The Elephant Man, or The Legend of 1900, which just showed up on my steps today in a 40 minute longer director's cut that has never played in the US. There is a huge difference in picture quality, for instance, between Vertigo in a non-anamorphic region 1 transfer, and Vertigo in region 2 PAL, which is an anamorphic transfer.
This player does everything it is claimed to do. Just search the posts for further confirmation.
Again, if it doesn't do a true anamorphic squeeze, who cares, the picture is still absolutely stunning on these discs.
Let me know if you need any further information.
[Edited last by Chuck Blair on September 26, 2001 at 02:29 PM]

 

[Francois L]

Jason, so we are back to the begining of the story. If you buy the rp56, you should change your rptv to a set that does the vertical squeeze or, better, a 16:9 hdtv-ready screen to get the maximum benefit from the progressive output. I think that those benefits are negated by the flaws from the downconversion of anamorphic material inside the dvd players.
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[Ray G]

I've been wrestling with this issue for some time now, as I have a 1st gen 4:3 Toshiba TN50X81, which does not do the squeeze. Francois' point is valid but given that progressive scan players can now be had for less than $300 [when 1 year ago there was nothing for less than $500], anyone with this type of 480P capable set may as well buy a progressive player. At worst the picture will be the same as with an interlaced player and at best [if it's good at downconversion], there may be some improvement [especially given that the line doubler in my set does not do 2:3 pulldown].
I'm finally planning to replace my ancient Toshiba sd2107 [no DTS capability, awful downconversion] with either the Panny RP56 or one of the JVC 70/75 models [because I would like to dabble with DVD-Audio]. Once I do so I'll let everyone know if I notice any improvement in progressive scan mode.
Ray G

 

[Don Munsil]

What is the difference between going into the service menu of a 4x3 set and doing the squeeze and letting the Malata do the squeeze?

With the squeeze, the tv is squeezing 480 lines into a smaller vertical area, so you get exactly 480 lines of resolution vertically in the image area. Using the scaling in the Malata, it's reducing those 480 lines to 360 lines, so you are not getting the benefit of an anamorphic transfer.
The Malata has excellent scaling, but you're not getting anything more or better than just setting the Malata for 4x3 and letting it do the downconversion. It's the exact same thing.
Now, because the Malata has such adaptable scaling, you could conceivably zoom in a little bit on a 16x9 transfer, and get more scan lines in the image while either squishing the aspect ratio a tad or cutting off a little of the edges, or both, and get more vertical resolution that way. But it's not a substitute for a real 16x9 TV or a TV that can do the raster squeeze.
Best,
Don

 

[Neil Weinstock]

May someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but...
Progressive scan and anamorphic squeeze function are completely independent of each other. For best results, you want both, but if you can only have one but not the other, it's still better than nothing. Linking the two features just confuses the issues.
If one is inadvertently "stuck" (and I use that term advisedly) with a 4:3 HDTV without squeeze function, I still say the only sensible, cost-effective approach is to carefully select a progressive-scan DVD player with good downconversion, e.g., Panasonic, JVC, Sony, and enjoy the great picture. Replace the TV in the future when you are able, and then enjoy the even greater picture.
If you're willing to throw money at the problem, then replacing the TV may be the best bet, rather than screwing around with external scalers and the like.

 

[Yohan Pamudji]

I think that buying a progressive scan DVD player when you don't plan on getting a progressive-capable display device (TV, projector, whathaveyou) within the next year or so is a waste of money. Features are being added to DVD players every day, including but not limited to DVD-Audio and SACD playback. Putting extra money into a feature you won't be able to use for at least another year (progressive scan) almost guarantees buyer's remorse when next year's progressive scan DVD players come out with more bang for the buck.
Then again, this only applies if you already have a DVD player and are thinking about upgrading to a progressive scan despite the lack of progressive capability on your TV set. If you don't have a DVD player yet and you'll be spending money on a DVD player anyway (as opposed to the previous scenario where the new DVD player is unnecessary) it's not such a waste of money.
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