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Progressive dvd players vs 4:3 rptv

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Francois L, Sep 23, 2001.

  1. Francois L

    Francois L Stunt Coordinator

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    Many dealers are telling customer to buy a progressive player because they will get a much better picture. But they usually sell them with a 4:3 ratio screen. I think that the gain you get by using a progressive player is much less that the loss you have when formating an anamorphic dvd to 4:3 viewing via the player. I think the way to go is 16:9 rptv first then go progressive. What do you think ?
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  2. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    Many of the new 4x3 HD-ready TV's can squeeze the picture frame to 16x9 for DVD's, thereby allowing you to view the full resolution of an anamorphic DVD transfer. As long as the TV supports this function, then the only difference in screen shape is selecting the one that best matches your viewing habits.
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  3. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    I think owning a TV which supports progressive input is important before you buy a progressive DVD player. [​IMG] Next, buying either a 4:3 set which does anamorphic squeeze, or a 16:9 set would also be mandatory for optimal playback of anamorphic DVDs. I think the TV screen format is irrelevant if the 16:9 image size is sufficient for your tastes, room and seating distance from screen.
    Finally, at this time, I would not buy a progressive DVD player which doesn't do a good job on 3:2 (2:3) pulldown, not have the chroma bug, and not have too soft a doubled picture. Right now, I think that player may be the Panasonic RP56.
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  4. Francois L

    Francois L Stunt Coordinator

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    Of course, my question did not include the sets that are squeezing the image verticaly. There is not that many sets that provide it and I think that Toshiba, and it is a very important manufacturer, does not offer this function for 480p. I just think that the dealers are trying to make some sales by promoting the progressive feature to the wrong peoples.
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  5. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    The new Toshiba 4x3's support the image squeeze, as do Sony 4x3 sets. I'm sure other folks can list other manufacturer's offering this feature (it's becoming more common all the time).
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  6. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    As Scott mentioned: Sony HS, Toshiba H-71, and the current Philips 4:3 sets all do the squeeze.
    Good Luck!
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    [Edited last by John Morris on September 23, 2001 at 10:16 PM]
     
  7. Neil Weinstock

    Neil Weinstock Stunt Coordinator

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    Francois wrote:
    >I think that the gain you get by using a progressive player
    >is much less than the loss you have when formating an
    >anamorphic dvd to 4:3 viewing via the player.
    I tend to agree, but it is highly dependent on the DVD player. Some do much better than others.
    Given a 4:3 TV without squeeze function, the thing to do is to get a progressive DVD player that also has an excellent anamorphic downconversion algorithm (not just give up and wait for a new TV!) Unfortunately this aspect of DVD players is rarely reported on in any consistent manner in reviews, which bums me out if I think about it.
    If starting from scratch, though, a TV (either 16:9 or 4:3) that properly supports anamorphic progressive input is obviously preferable. Viewing patterns and personal preferences may dictate a 4:3 set, but that doesn't mean that DVD viewing has to be compromised (given a good set of mattes [​IMG].)
    [Edited last by Neil Weinstock on September 23, 2001 at 10:59 PM]
     
  8. Jason Blaydes

    Jason Blaydes Stunt Coordinator

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    sorry for the dumb question, but i'm trying to learn... what is image squeeze? i have the toshiba 55h70... does it support image squeeze? if it doesn't should i even bother getting a progressive scan dvd player?
    >"Given a 4:3 TV without squeeze function, the thing to do is to get a progressive DVD player that also has an excellent anamorphic downconversion algorithm (not just give up and wait for a new TV!)"
    i thought since this set was hdtv ready that it supported progressive video. i was going to order the panasonic rp-56 tomorrow... should i not do this? thanks for any input and help, peace [​IMG]
    [Edited last by Jason Blaydes on September 23, 2001 at 11:46 PM]
     
  9. Francois L

    Francois L Stunt Coordinator

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    Jason, yes the tosh.(55h70) can accept progressive signals from a dvd player but can't do the squeeze on these signals; only on HDTV(1080i). If you want a progressive player, you should check for the downconversion, like Neil has said. But I think it does not worth the money to go the progressive way with a tv set like this one. And Scott, are you sure about the new Toshiba doing the vertical squeeze on 480p signals? Thank's
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  10. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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  11. Jason Blaydes

    Jason Blaydes Stunt Coordinator

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    quote: Jason, yes the tosh.(55h70) can accept progressive signals from a dvd player but can't do the squeeze on these signals; only on HDTV(1080i). [/quote]
    my toshiba does except 1080i... is there a different 1080i that i'm unaware of?
    here is a link on toshiba's website to my tv set: http://www.toshiba.com/tacp/tv/archive/55H70.html
    P.S. - at that link above... it states my set has "New16:9 Mode with Vertical Compression" is this different from the squeeze you are discussing?
    [Edited last by Jason Blaydes on September 24, 2001 at 03:01 PM]
     
  12. Neil Weinstock

    Neil Weinstock Stunt Coordinator

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    Jason:
    I have the 50HX70, which is basically the same as yours but smaller. The 16:9 mode they refer to is only for 1080i or 540p inputs; no luck for 480p. It's "new" because their older sets didn't support any squeeze mode at all.
    I still maintain that progressive is equally valuable on such a TV, it's just that you have to do additional research into getting a player with good 4:3 downconversion (i.e., process by which the player takes the widescreen source material and squeezes it into a letterboxed 4:3 output signal.)
    Quickie progressive DVD player recommendations, based on what I know of their downconversion:
    1) Strongly consider Panasonic, JVC
    2) Consider Sony
    3) Look into new Kenwood Sovereign units, if the price is acceptable
    4) Avoid Toshiba
    These are of course not complete, just a starting point.
     
  13. Chuck Blair

    Chuck Blair Agent

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    There is one DVD player on the market, the Malata N996, that will allow the squeeze trick on any 4x3 TV since the scaling capabilities of the player allow the squeeze independently of the TV. Just set the Malata to output to a 16x9 TV and then use the x-y scaling to obtain the proper aspect ratio (about 16 clicks on the down arrow in the x-y menu). It is a progressive player. As a lovely bonus it also plays all regions and does excellant PAL to NTSC conversion, all for under $300.
     
  14. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

     
  15. Yohan Pamudji

    Yohan Pamudji Second Unit

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    Component inputs do not guarantee progressive-capable display, right? In other words, a TV can have component inputs but still not be able to properly display a progressive signal. Am I correct in this? If so, how can I tell if a TV's component inputs are progressive-capable? Are only HD-ready sets capable of receiving and displaying progressive signals? I assume this is only a problem for 4:3 sets that do the anamorphic squeeze, since 16:9 sets are all progressive-capable.
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  16. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    Yohan,
    You are correct -- component video inputs on a TV does not guarantee it can accept a progressive video signal. Some analog TV's can only accept a 480i signal via the component inputs. A progressive scan DVD player will put out a 480p video signal, which is technically only "standard definition TV" (SDTV). Therefore, any TV that states it is digital-ready, as opposed to HD-ready, would work. I do not believe that many SD-ready sets were made, though (but I'm sure other members can list which companies made such products).
    As for 16x9 sets, some of the older models are not HD-ready, but anything sold as new today in the U.S. should accept at least a 480p signal (most support true HD at either 1080i or 720p).
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  17. Brian Treinen

    Brian Treinen Stunt Coordinator

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    You are correct about a TV having component inputs and not neccessarily supporting progressive display. I've got a Tosh TN50X81 bought about 1.5 years ago that fits this description exactly. I bought a Tosh 6200 and brought it home to see if there was any difference between my non-prog player and the 6200. After hours of looking at my favorite DVDs I came to the conclusion that, no, there is no discernable difference between the two, when in fact if it was supported I would have seen a dramatic difference. However if you do have a set that does the "sqeeze trick" then by all means you should see definate improvement.
     
  18. John Wilson

    John Wilson Supporting Actor

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    Chuck,
    I tried to email you the following message but it came back as undeliverable. Please email me with your response or post so others can learn as well.
    Hi Chuck.
    I've noticed a couple of threads on the HTF where you list the Malata
    N996 as a good choice for owners of HD-ready 4x3 TVs. I am intrigued
    with this ability as I now have a Toshiba 5109 feeding a Toshiba
    TN50x81 4x3 set. As you may know, the downconversion of the 5109 is
    not the greatest but the progressive output helps temper that
    somewhat.
    I am close to getting another progressive scan dvd player and was
    ready to get the Panasonic RP56 until I saw your posts. Can you tell
    me:
    1. Do you have this player and what TV do you have it connected to?
    2. How is the non-interlaced picture on this player?
    3. What do you like and dislike about the player? Does it seem to be
    made well?
    4. Where is the cheapest and most reliable place to purchase one of
    these? I've read that some place in Canada is selling them but is
    there another choice?
    5. What sites have the best/most information on this player?
    Thanks for your answers. I may have to try this player out, especially
    if it does all the things that is claimed it can do! [​IMG]
    Best Regards,
    John Wilson
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    Timing is Everything.
    [email protected] Weekdays
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  19. Brian Treinen

    Brian Treinen Stunt Coordinator

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    There is one DVD player on the market, the Malata N996, that will allow the squeeze trick on any 4x3 TV since the scaling capabilities of the player allow the squeeze independently of the TV.
    Mr. Blair,
    I'm very interested in hearing more about the Malata N996 could you email me with more information?!? I may be in the market for a new player, I was going to wait but if this player is decent and does what you describe I could be bumping up my purchase!
     
  20. John Wilson

    John Wilson Supporting Actor

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    Chuck,
    I tried to email you the following message but it came back as undeliverable. Please email me with your response or post so others can learn as well.
    Hi Chuck.
    I've noticed a couple of threads on the HTF where you list the Malata
    N996 as a good choice for owners of HD-ready 4x3 TVs. I am intrigued
    with this ability as I now have a Toshiba 5109 feeding a Toshiba
    TN50x81 4x3 set. As you may know, the downconversion of the 5109 is
    not the greatest but the progressive output helps temper that
    somewhat.
    I am close to getting another progressive scan dvd player and was
    ready to get the Panasonic RP56 until I saw your posts. Can you tell
    me:
    1. Do you have this player and what TV do you have it connected to?
    2. How is the non-interlaced picture on this player?
    3. What do you like and dislike about the player? Does it seem to be
    made well?
    4. Where is the cheapest and most reliable place to purchase one of
    these? I've read that some place in Canada is selling them but is
    there another choice?
    5. What sites have the best/most information on this player?
    Thanks for your answers. I may have to try this player out, especially
    if it does all the things that is claimed it can do! [​IMG]
    Best Regards,
    John Wilson
    ------------------
    John F. Wilson
    Timing is Everything.
    [email protected] Weekdays
    [email protected] Nights and Weekends
     

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