Progressive DVD player with flexible bass mgmt for DD/DTS

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Ranga, Aug 9, 2001.

  1. Ranga

    Ranga Stunt Coordinator

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    I am looking to replace my current DVD player with a progressive DVD player with built-in DD/DTS decoder.
    With regard to Bass mgmt, I am looking for the following features -
    Setting for Stereo Direct (which should bypass the DSP)
    Setting for SUB=No (To direct LFE and
     
  2. Ranga

    Ranga Stunt Coordinator

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    I find it a little perplexing that my posts in this forum receive very few responses.
    Is it because I am relatively new, my topics are not right or there are no answers?
    Bump..
    Ranga
     
  3. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    Ranga,
    If the RP91's Dolby Digital/DTS decoder is like the one on my Panasonic A-320, it has all the dvd bass management features you're looking for as far as being able to specify no sub, etc.
    I don't know if the RP91 has bass management for dvd audio as opposed to dd and dts dvd video, or if that's part of your question.
    The only thing the decoder might lack is an option for 2 channel stereo for playing cds via the 5.1 pre-outs on the player. There may be a menu option on the player to make it output plain stereo thru the left and right front 5.1 pre-outs, or you may have to connect the standard left and right analog audio outputs to the left and right inputs for cd on your reciever or processor.
    ------------------
    Steve S.
    I prefer not to push the subwoofers until they're properly run in.
     
  4. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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    I don't know about your other posts (which I haven't seen), but I suspect the reason you're not getting answers to this question is that most people here don't use DTS or DD decoders built into their DVD players. The built-in decoders are convenience features, and they don't usually drive purchase decisions. As a result, the DACs and other decoding circuitry are areas where player manufacturers are most likely to cut corners. Most HT enthusiasts prefer to handle the decoding and D/A conversion with a receiver or pre/pro.
    I have no experience with the the models you've listed, but I think it's unlikely that the kind of sophisticated sound management options you're looking for will be well implemented (or included at all) in a DVD player.
    M.
     
  5. DanG

    DanG Stunt Coordinator

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  6. Stephen Dodds

    Stephen Dodds Second Unit

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    Where is the FAQ, if you don't mind?
    Steve
     
  7. Ranga

    Ranga Stunt Coordinator

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    Thank you for the responses.
    DanG - I have the RP91 FAQ printed and I don't recall these issues being mentioned except for this line -
    "Setting the Fronts to LARGE, or by removing the sub (will default to Large Fronts as present) will make the Large Fronts handle all frequencies"
    Does this imply there is a SUB=NO setting? This is the most important thing that I am looking for as I am using speaker-level connections from the fronts on the amp to the SVS 25-31PC. TomV does recommend that I connect both sub-out and speaker-level to the sub.
    Steve - Here is the link to the FAQ - http://www.hometheaterforum.com/uub/...ML/041804.html
    Ranga
     
  8. Stephen Dodds

    Stephen Dodds Second Unit

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    Assuming the bass management is similar to previous Panny's, that would be a Sub No setting.
    Steve
    ------------------
    Steve's Toys
     
  9. PatrickM

    PatrickM Screenwriter

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    Ranga,
    I own a RP91 and to confirm, yes there is a sub yes or no setting.
    Patrick
    ------------------
    My DVD Collection
     
  10. DanG

    DanG Stunt Coordinator

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  11. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Ranga,
    Here's the short version. I'd have answered sooner, but I was out of town.
    Bass Management:
    Variable Crossover Frequency: No.
    Can set Subwoofer off/on: Yes.
    Bass Management for DD: Yes.
    " for DTS: Yes.
    " for PCM: No.
    " for DVD-A: No.
    ------------------
    John Kotches
    Contributing Writer
    Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity
     
  12. Ranga

    Ranga Stunt Coordinator

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    DanG
    I don't quite understand what you said -
    "When playing a CD and using the digital outs of the 91, there is no way to kill the bass energies generated from the stereo signal and included in the bitstream from appearing at your sub. You can go PCM instead of Bitstream, select 2channel or Sub=NO in the SPEAKER SETTING menu but nothing will remove the bass signal being sent to the sub
    For stereo CD's you would have to use the 91's analogue outputs to ensure the sub signal does not get through. In this mode you would get only L&R channel info and since there is no LFE on a CD the Subwoofer out channel would have no signal."
    Here's what I want to do -
    Connect the Sub to through the speaker-level connections to the 5-ch amp's L&R speaker connection.
    For Music (stereo - 2ch)
    ----------
    Connect the digital-out of the DVD player to an outboard DAC, which is connected to the pre-amp's CD inputs. The pre-amp's L&R outs are connected to the L&R of the amp.
    This should provide me with a pure signal for stereo (no DSP processing) and use the sub's crossover for managing the bass.
    For Movies (DD/DTS)
    -------------------
    Connect the analog outs (except the sub-out) from the DVD player to the pre-amp's 6-channel inputs and then to the amp. The SPEAKER settings on the DVD player should be set to LARGE with SUB=NO. This should direct all frequencies (including LFE) to the fronts (L&R), which will also be sent to the sub. The sub crossover should low pass filter the bass frequencies from the fronts.
    Is there anything that I have overlooked or misunderstood?
    Ranga
     
  13. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Yes you've overlooked one minor detail...
    All speakers to large means that the Center and Surrounds will receive full range signals.
    You really want to set Center and surrounds to small.
    Regards,
    ------------------
    John Kotches
    Contributing Writer
    Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity
     
  14. DanG

    DanG Stunt Coordinator

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    quote: Originally posted by: Ranga
    For Music (stereo - 2ch)
    ----------
    Connect the digital-out of the DVD player to an outboard DAC, which is connected to the pre-amp's CD inputs. The pre-amp's L&R outs are connected to the L&R of the amp.
    This should provide me with a pure signal for stereo (no DSP processing) and use the sub's crossover for managing the bass.[/quote]
    I guess I was reading in something that wasn't there. All I meant was using the 91's DAC's and its analogue outs will get you only L&R channel info with no sub signal. Using the 91's digital out will provide you wih a sub signal that you would have to manage.
    quote: For Movies (DD/DTS)
    -------------------
    Connect the analog outs (except the sub-out) from the DVD player to the pre-amp's 6-channel inputs and then to the amp. The SPEAKER settings on the DVD player should be set to LARGE with SUB=NO. This should direct all frequencies (including LFE) to the fronts (L&R), which will also be sent to the sub. The sub crossover should low pass filter the bass frequencies from the fronts.
    [/quote]
    As John mentioned in his reply, if you play DVD-V with SUB=NO then any frequencies below 100Hz will appear at all your speakers. However I would have thought that most of what goes to surrounds in DVD-V format would be voice and ambient sound, unlike in DVD-A where any speaker can receive tremendous amounts of energy. Good example is my recently acquired Blue Man Group, this could kill some underpowered surround speakers.
    What would be the problem with setting the fronts to large, the surrounds to small and sub=no. Now you would have bass management for your surrounds and feed your sub with your speaker level connection.
    The only problem I've found in my rectangular area when feeding my sub a LFE and mains derived sub signal is that it sounds boomy and can be localized. Running LFE only into it cures the problem.
    ------------------
    °°° Panasonic Hi&Lo Def WebPage°°°
    [Edited last by DanG on August 14, 2001 at 08:15 AM]
     
  15. Sean Oneil

    Sean Oneil Supporting Actor

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    The JVC unit does have built in bass managment for DD and DTS only. You can select sub/no sub and large/small speaker settings, and the unit will route the frequencies accordingly. (No sub means no frequencies to the sub PERIOD, and the low end of the .1channel gets sent to the mains). When listening to two channel stereo, only the left and right front outputs of the six channel outputs are active, and contain all frequency information.
    Probably exactly like the Panny RP-91, except I believe that someone said the crossover frequency on the Panny is 100Hz, where as on the JVC 721/723 it is set at 80Hz.
    Personally, having a SVS 20-39 and some decent mains with 8" drivers -I think that 80Hz works better for me as a crossover point for my system. This may be the best solution for you as well. I also have a decoder (outside of my JVC player) which has a DD decoder with a 100Hz crossover point. Personally, I find that I can very often tell where the bass is coming from in the 80-100Hz range. With an 80Hz crossover point, the bass blends in much better with the main speakers -as it should.
    [Edited last by Sean Oneil on August 14, 2001 at 01:58 AM]
     

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