Problems with Philips 30PW850H (30" HDTV)

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Samuel_Fred, Feb 3, 2004.

  1. Samuel_Fred

    Samuel_Fred Stunt Coordinator

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    Besides what I feel is excessive overscan, this TV is causing me two serious problems. I'm not sure whether these are fixable or just the way this TV was built. Help!

    1) I can't watch 4x3 DVDs in progressive scan mode without the TV stretching them out to fill the 16x9 dimensions of the TV. The "format" function that allows you to switch to 4x3 is only available in the interlaced mode. I have tried several DVD players and only one (see problem (2)) had a special output mode for 16x9 TVs that gave me the right image. The signal from my other players is processed properly by other HDTVs I've hooked them up to, so clearly this Philips is at a disadvantage here (?).

    2) When I finally got a real 4x3 image it was broken up by horizontal lines that interfered especially with straight or curved lines in the picture.

    What to do?
     
  2. Adam.Heckman

    Adam.Heckman Second Unit

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    Is your DVD hooked up with component cables? If so, try putting the DVD into the other set of component ins, the TV has two. If the DVD is in the upper set (sorry forget the number) then you lose the ability to change the aspect ratio yourself on most signals. I have my DVD in the lower one, and my HD box in the upper, it stretches my non-HD 4X3 signal to fill the 16X9 screen, a bit annoying, but I got it mainly for the DVDs and for when HD really expands.
    Go crazy. Let us know what luck you have.
    Oh, and as for the lines, I've never witnessed it, perhaps its a fault in your particular set.
     
  3. Kevin G.

    Kevin G. Second Unit

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    Yeah, the "CVI" inputs will up-convert a non-progressive signal.
    I'm not sure why you'd want to watch any movie in the 4:3 mode as it is quite small on this screen.
    And we did buy "wide screen" TV's didn't we?
    Good luck with the connections as I confused myself pretty heavily on hooking this thing up, the quick start guide is about all you get on hookup and it's kinda poor
     
  4. Samuel_Fred

    Samuel_Fred Stunt Coordinator

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    Well, I DO want to watch 4x3 films as well as widescreen films. Some great films ae in full screen format-- what do you do, stretch them out and distort them? I wouldn't want to. Plus the image quality is far superior in progressive scan mode (widescreen or no), so that's why I got an HDTV.

    I am unable to change the aspect ratio with the component cables hooked up to either input (AV1/CVI or AV4). In progressive scan mode the TV simply doesn't give me that option. I just spoke to a service tech who confirmed this. Are you sure we've got the same TV?

    So what wide HDTVs WILL properly display my 4x3 films?
     
  5. Kevin G.

    Kevin G. Second Unit

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    I don't know Samuel... I kinda like the widescreen formats, they don't appear too distorted in the "zoom" modes to me,(while I do concede that the normal widescreen 16:9 is very distorted in normal 4:3 broadcasts.)
    You have to understand I was upgrading from an early 90's RCA w/no inputs or outputs, so this is an incredible step up for me.
     
  6. John S

    John S Producer

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    For the very reasons you site, was my main reason for going with a giant 4:3 HDTV, the 60" Philips offers a native 16:9 Widescreen mode for HDTV...

    I screen a lot of old 1950's and before movies.
     
  7. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

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    I watch 4:3 movies and TV on my 30” 16:9 bedroom set all the time. As far as wanting to, I prefer to watch on a larger set, but it does not fit in my bedroom. Therefore if I want to watch a classic movie in bed, I want to watch on this size set.
     
  8. oryan_dunn

    oryan_dunn Agent

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    The Philips sets will lock 480p and 1080i into "widescreen" mode. It is possible to get the set to look really good in 480i mode, but it requires adjusting the sharpness of the 480i componet input, an involved process, but the results are really good. After lowering the sharpness of the 480i component signal, interlaced DVDs look strikingly similar to a progressive signal and you are able to adjust the screen format since it is in interlaced mode.
     
  9. EdHonauer

    EdHonauer Auditioning

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    My wife bought a Philips 30PW850H as a surprise gift (I know, lucky me). Most of what I've read about the TV is really positive, but I'm a little concerned about the 4:3 stretching issue. Some of my favorite films are older or were released on DVD in 4:3 (e.g. Kubrick's films).

    I'm okay with running 4:3 DVDs through the component input (and trying oryan_dunn's sharpness tweak as well) to get a windowboxed frame. My question is, can the set be switched between component / progressive inputs from the remote, or will I be scrambling behind the set to plug and unplug cords when I'm switching between the component and progressive inputs?
     
  10. oryan_dunn

    oryan_dunn Agent

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    both component inputs accept a 480i, 480p, or 1080i so all you'll need to do is switch the player back and forth from interlaced to progressive, with no cable swapping needed. [​IMG]
     
  11. Stephen Hopkins

    Stephen Hopkins HW Reviewer
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    An easy fix for your "lock in full" mode is a DVD player that pillar-boxes 4:3 material allowing it to be displayed properly on "lock in full" 16:9 displays. I got a JVC 40BK player for $45 from ecost for this purpose. It also has the propper zoom settings for non-anamorphic 16:9 movies which "lock in full" 16:9 displays also have problems with.

    I can't really picture what's going on w/ the second problem you describe, but I know my philips HD set had really bad geometry on 480i, 480p, and 1080i. The solution is to get in to the service menu an use some test patterns (Avia, Video Essentials, S&V Guide To HT Tune Up) to get the geometry as good as you can. This made a world of difference in my set and outside of an ISF I don't think it could get any better.

    Hope this helps [​IMG]
     
  12. oryan_dunn

    oryan_dunn Agent

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    The problem that older Philips HD sets had was that they had two component inputs, one that accepted only 480i, and the other only accepted 480p or 1080i. The newer Philips sets component inputs accept 480i, 480p, and 1080i.

    That is a good suggestion for the DVD player. I thought about getting one myself for that purpose, but I haven't noticed a huge difference in progressive vs. non-progressive on the tv, especially if you can knock down the sharpness on 480i.

    Ryan
     
  13. Stephen Hopkins

    Stephen Hopkins HW Reviewer
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    I don't see how the input affects what he's calling "broken up by horizontal lines that interfered especially with straight or curved lines in the picture". That sounds like either geometry or a problem with the source.
     
  14. oryan_dunn

    oryan_dunn Agent

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    I'm sorry, I was replying to Ed's post about having to switch inputs for interlaced or progressive. I have no clue about what could be causing the lines that Samual posted about.
     
  15. Stephen Hopkins

    Stephen Hopkins HW Reviewer
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    Ok, that clears it up. What was really tough for me was figuring out a way to get 1080i test patterns to my set. I finally copied some test patterns on to a DVD-R and used my Bravo D1 to scale them to 1080i (it'll scale over component for non-copyrighted discs). Either way, once the geometry is dialed in decently (which is 10 times better than factory) and the rest of the picture settings are adjusted properly these sets really look good, especially for the price.
     
  16. oryan_dunn

    oryan_dunn Agent

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    I was looking in the manual for that player and it didn't say specifically what zoom mode to use. Do you just use the 1.8 that is says is good for 4:3 displays to get rid of the black bars?

    Ryan
     
  17. Stephen Hopkins

    Stephen Hopkins HW Reviewer
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    The first step is very good for non-anamorphic material with only minimal over-zoom, most of which is due to the TV's overscan anyway.
     
  18. oryan_dunn

    oryan_dunn Agent

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    Since you own the 40BK, do you know if there is any difference, other than color, between the XV-N40BK and the XV-N44SL? I was looking through the specs and saw nothing that jumped out at me. Also, they have the same manual (which means they can't be all that different).
     
  19. Stephen Hopkins

    Stephen Hopkins HW Reviewer
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    Color is the only difference. If you can find it you may want to get the older 44BK / SL. It's pretty much the same player with all the same features but also has a region-free hack available if that's anything that interests you.
     
  20. Paul.S

    Paul.S Producer

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    Bump.

    Samuel, I've read both of the threads (this one and this other one) re your 30PW850H issues. Re #2 above: I don't know what is going on there for sure, but I would tend to agree with the faulting of your Jaton's video processing circuitry that a poster mentioned in that other thread.

    Re #1, I don't think this is a "serious problem." I understand from the other thread that you're new but the issue of aspect ratio control/a 16:9 set's locking into a 'full' or widescreen mode when it's fed a progressive signal has been discussed ad nauseum in many HTF threads. I recommend a) switching to interlaced when watching 4:3 movies (and this is frankly no different than what one has to do when watching non-anamorph DVD supps when prog scan w/ this set); b) getting a second, inexpensive DVD player that you leave in interlaced mode for playback of such content; or c) getting the JVC unit Stephen mentions.

    Btw, this isn't just an issue for older, 4:3 films. Not having a scaler, I 'deal' with this every time I wanna watch The Abyss, Crimson Tide, True Lies, Titanic or Enemy Of the State--non-anamorphs all.

    -p
     

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