Problem with my HD HT setup. Can anyone help? (1 Viewer)

[bryanschmidty]

I am having troubles with my desired Home Theater setup and I hope someone has some insight on what additional equipment I may need, or if I am doing something wrong.

Here is my setup:
I have a Digital Lifestyles 42" 1080i HD LCD TV in my family room upstairs.
I have my HTPC with an nVidia HD 4200 card (HDMI output) downstairs
I have a Dish VIP722k DVR with HDMI output downstairs

I have an HDMI extender over Cat6 (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10425&cs_id=1042501&p_id=6177&seq=1&format=2) that sends an HDMI signal upstairs via 2 Cat6 cables, transmitting across 60 feet of cable length (the extender itself claims to be able to work up to 88 feet.
I have an HDMI 4x2 Matrix Switcher (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5312&seq=1&format=2)

So far, if I plug either the DVR or the HTPC directly into the HDMI extender, they will work fine. When I have the DVR and the HTPC plugged into the 4x2 HDMI switcher, I will get video sometimes, but never audio. If I have all the devices upstairs (taking the extender out of the equation) The switcher works just fine: video and audio.

Possible (unwanted) Solution: I can get another HDMI extender so I can port both devices' HDMI signals upstairs with 4 cat6 cables. BUT, then I won't be able to use the 2nd output feature that the HDMI switcher has. That is the reason I bought it in the first place.

Can anyone think of any reason why both the HDMI switcher and the HDMI extender would work alone, but not together? Am I just putting too many connections into the mix? Do I need some sort of HDMI power injector or signal booster (do they exist?)

 

[Stephen_J_H]

You don't say so, but am I correct in assuming that the switcher precedes the extender in your equipment chain? (cable box and HTPC into switcher, then cables from switcher into the extender, which feeds the upstairs display) I think your conclusion is correct. Too many connections causing problems in the digital chain.

 

[bryanschmidty]

Yes Stephen, you are right. The switcher precedes the extender.
However, after many more hours of troubleshooting, I found out that my audio problem was due to audio settings within Windows 7 on the HTPC. Without the switcher, the playback device should be set to HD Audio. With the switcher, for some reason, it should be set to SPDIF output, and that's where my problem was: I kept it set to HD Audio. This makes no sense whatsoever because I'm not even touching the SPDIF port on my computer. Why would that be set to output through the HDMI port and not the HD Audio? It's a mystery.

But now I have a different problem, and this may again be related to Windows 7 or the nVidia graphics driver software. I'll be watching my HTPC just fine (input A1), then I switch to the Dish PVR (input A2). I am watching that just fine, then if I decide to switch back to the HTPC (input A1), there is no audio nor video. I have to unplug the HDMI cable between the switcher and the HTPC and reconnect it before the signal is sent successfully.

So tell me, would that be an issue with the switcher? or the graphics card?

 

[Stephen_J_H]

That sounds like a handshake issue. There's a school of thought that beleives there is a certain odrer in which your components should be powered on in order for HDMI to communicate correctly. You may wish to PM RAF on this forum. He's the expert on all HDMI issues and may be able to advise you best. Good luck.

 

[bryanschmidty]

Okay, I hadn't considered the HDMI handshaking. Thanks for the input Stephen. I will see what RAF says about it

 

[RAF]

Hi Bryan. Rather than replying via PM I decided to try to answer your question here. Please forgive me if I don't check in as regularly as I usually do because I'm currently battling some health issues. But let me give it a try. In my experience the handshaking issues seem to crop up as you add more and more devices between your source and your monitor(s). The problem is that each new device increases the chance that handshaking begins to become a problem. And it's often hard to blame the individual manufacturers because individually they are within HDMI "specs." For example, if manufacturers were allowed an variance of 0.3% in the specs (numbers not real but just to serve as an example) and handshaking issues don't appear until a 1.0% variance then each device would be within HDMI spec standards. However the problem becomes an additive one - i.e. if you connect 4 devices in the chain that each contribute 0.3% variance the total variance would be 1.2% (and this would be above the 1.0% point where problems might occur.) It is a tricky thing to diagnose because of the wide number of products out there (not to mention the occasional manufacturer who still doesn't follow the HDMI specs). The best thing that I can recommend is to try to keep the number of devices in the chain to a minimum and also try to limit the length of the HDMI cables, especially in multiple device configurations. I also notice that you use some CAT6 in your chain and I would recommend trying to shorten the HDMI portion by lengthening the CAT6 wiring if that's an option since CAT6 lengths can be much longer than HDMI lengths before you run into issues. I'm also assuming you are using quality components (ones that don't mess with the copy protection aspect of HDMI). The fact that you must disconnect and then re-connect your cables when switching indicates to me that handshaking issues are definitely causing the problem. That also leads me to believe that the switch is the issue. One of the frustrating things about HDMI is that very often the order in which you turn on devices will determine whether handshaking will work and once you have worked that out then some switches can mess with the signal for a wide number of reasons.

I realize that this is not the answer that you were looking for but it's impossible for me to get more specific because of the huge number of possible sources of your current problem. I hope that this at least gets you pointed in some productive direction.

HDMI is both a great connection and an extremely frustrating one. When it involves a simple installation it usually works great (and seems to be getting better over the past few years). But the minute your setup gets more elaborate it increases the chance of you coming across a problem like you describe. Then you need to figure out a work-around.

Good luck.

 

[bryanschmidty]

Okay, thanks for the education! It helps me understand a but more. I will do some more troubleshooting with order of powering on devices and such. The DVR powers on and off between switching, but the HTPC does not, so that may be the root of my problem.

I have taken your advice and have minimized the amount of HDMI cable. I have 1' HDMI cables between each device and the switcher, and another 1' HDMI cable from the switcher to the cat6 extender. There is 60' of cat6 pair, then a 3' length of HDMI to the TV.

So, it is safe to assume that I don't need to use any HDMI repeaters then?

 

[RAF]

Originally Posted by bryanschmidty


So, it is safe to assume that I don't need to use any HDMI repeaters then?

I wouldn't rule that out as an option if nothing else works. A lot of the handshaking issues seem to occur when the signal weakens for a number of reasons and sometimes a repeater can help (but not always). Like I said, as soon as you get beyond the "simple" HDMI installations there are so many variables involved that it's difficult to pinpoint the source of the problem. The concept of HDMI, handshaking, and a "one wire solution" is a good one but those of us with more than a basic connection have learned through trial and error that there are many potential pitfalls because of the additive effect of many components in the path. At least it's gotten a lot better than a couple of years ago when many manufacturers just ignored the HDMI specs.