problem with 1.33 playback

Discussion in 'Beginners, General Questions' started by richardWI, Apr 8, 2004.

  1. richardWI

    richardWI Second Unit

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    Hello,
    I just got a Philips 30PW850H widescreen tv. It's connected to a Sony dvp-nc685v dvd player and widescreen movies in progressive mode look great, but when I play any 1.33 movies in progressive it stretches the picture. When I turn off progressive the movie reverts to its OAR. Is progressive only intended for widescreen movies?
     
  2. Lev-S

    Lev-S Second Unit

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    I'll take a shot in the dark and say the TV is the cause.
     
  3. EricJD

    EricJD Auditioning

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    I had the reverse problem with my Sony XBR400.
    It is a 4:3 tv that will auto-squeeze widescreen dvds and display them in a 16:9 format with black bars on the top and bottom. However with a progressive scan dvd player the auto squeeze was not occuring and I had to manually adjust the format. Setting the DVD player to interlaced solved the problem.
    From my understanding the interlaced format conatains a flag that indicates wether the dvd is encoded in a wide screen format. The progressive scan data stream does not have a defined flag.
    Perhaps your TV treats everything as wide-screen unless it sees the flag which would have to be in interlaced format.

    One additional thought:
    My Pioneer DVD player allowed me to play 16:9 and 4:3 titles differently. Maybe you could set your widescreen dvds to use progressive scan and your 4:3 dvds to use interlaced.
     
  4. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    Some TV sets had a "lock to full" problem on the progressive input. I guess the manufacturers would call it a "feature"- when most of us would think of it as a bug.

    Some sets had a way to defeat it- but if searching doesn't turn up anything, chances are you're stuck switching to non-prog for 4:3 material until you get a new set (although some products were introduced to reformat the picture- it lowered resolution- so you're damned if you do).

    -V
     
  5. Mike Williams

    Mike Williams Screenwriter

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    my understanding has always been that progressive scan is only intended for widescreen TVs, and that without a widescreen TV, the progressive scan feature on a DVD player was essentially useless anyway. I'm pretty sure this is the case, with the exception of those 4x3 TVs with the enhanced widescreen feature.
     
  6. Don_Berg

    Don_Berg Supporting Actor

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    The cheaper widescreen TV manufacturers (like Philips, RCA) don't support stretch/zoom display modes with a progressive input. The better manufacturers (Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic) however do support such modes in both interlaced and progressive mode. There are a few DVD player models that can pillar-box 4:3 DVD titles for locked-full widescreen TVs, the JVC models do this.
     
  7. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    Absolutely false, although an understandable misunderstanding.

    Progressive scan has nothing to do with aspect ratio (in fact, very little about DVD really has much to do with aspect ratio- 4:3 dvd and 16:9 enhanced dvd titles are, aside from a flag, exactly the same in terms of resolution and encoding- it's how they're dealt with once they're output that makes the difference).

    However- because progressive scanning really happened about the same time as HD (because normal TVs didn't have fast enough scan rates, for the most part, to support prog scan- it was usually hd models that were able to do it). because the majority of HD sets were widescreen, as a result- the majority of sets that supported Prog Scan are widescreen--- but's it's more of a matter of timing than anything else.

    Older CRT data grade projectors, for example, have "native 4:3" aspect ratios- yet have the scan capacity for prog scanning.

    Again, it just so happened that a TV had to be newer in order to be able to take prog scan... and most newer TV sets were 16:9. This was not an issue of technology, rather an issue of coincidence.


    As Don said- some sets that accept prog scan juts lock to "full" mode when using it- and don't support any sreetch or squeeze modes. Most newer sets allow you to alter the aspect on prog scan, just a select few from a certain era didn't.

    And, as Don said, some DVD players will add boxing to the sides to properly format the picture, however- as I mentioned above- this is done at a loss of resolution (since the DVD frame essentially starts as 720x480- if you add boxing bars on the sides to reformat the picture, they have to remove some resolution from the image to make room).

    -vince
     
  8. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    so what is the advantage of a progressive scan dvd player on a standard-def, 4x3 tv? any???
     
  9. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    Well...

    1) It's POSSIBLE that a Standard def set could still sync to progressive scan... a TV doesn't ncessarily have to be Hi-def to sync to prog scan... but most standard definition analog sets don't have the ability to sync to prog scan (say 99.9% of them)...

    Just wanted be clear however there are models out there that were not yet HD, but specifically designed to sync to 480p (progressive scan).

    2) A standard definition analog TV without progressive compatibility will not be able to accept the prog signal... so you would have to put it in interlaced mode, meaning, well that the advantage of prog scan signal would be zero.

    However, it could be argued that a prog player will be newer, so having one is better for even interlaced TV users because is guarantees newer electronics and newer converters... but the actual prog signal does nothing for them as their TV wouldnt recognize it anyway.

    Similar arguements have been made in terms of "anamorphic" benefit for 4:3 tv owners... really - technically speaking- there is none-- although it makes 4:3 set owners a but more future-compatible (when they decide to go 16:9) and an anamorphic transfer usually means a "new" transfer, so that helps everyone- 4:3 or 16:9...

    -V
     
  10. Don_Berg

    Don_Berg Supporting Actor

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    Standard analog 4:3 TVs only support 480i (interlace) format, they can't handle a progressive 480p signal at all. You would have to switch a progressive DVD player into interlaced mode (most default to interlaced for that reason) to work at all with an analog set. There are some very rare cheaper digital TV models that are called EDTV (as opposed to HDTV) that support 480p and 480i but no HD modes (720p and 1080i). But the price difference on the CRT ED sets compared to a similar sized HD set is so small, I'd just go for the HD set. There are also ED resolution plasma displays that have 852x480 resolution, but they accept both 480p and HD formats and scale everything to their native resolution.
     

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