Problem using vertical mattes for 4:3 material on 16:9 TV?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Brian Cal, Nov 6, 2001.

  1. Brian Cal

    Brian Cal Stunt Coordinator

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    I see a lot of posts here where people say how they always watch 4:3 material in "stretch mode" on their 16:9 TV, simply because they don't like the sight of the bright grey bars. This leads me to wonder, has no one made a pair of vertical mattes for their 16:9 TV, and if so, why not? Can this somehow harm the TV? I realize that might be a stupid question, but unless anyone can think of a reason not to, I'm thinking about making a pair of vertical mattes so I can view half hour television shows in their OAR without the distraction of the grey bars. I would think half hour wouldn't be nearly enough time for the grey bars to cause burn in.
    Any thoughts on if I should or should not do this?
     
  2. Matt Heebner

    Matt Heebner Stunt Coordinator

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    Burn In is a very real fear. I know that the grey bars do not bother me, but fear of a constant image permanantly on my screen keeps me in the stretch mode. A half hour show once a week is not going to cause it of course, but half hour shows from 7:00pm to 10:00pm every day of the week or even a few times a week sure could.
    Its a trade off that I made when I purchased a 16:9 RPTV. Mattes will help if you don't like seeing the gray, but I would still suggest changing your viewing ratio not only because of the grey bar burn in, but also to keep the station logo's moving around.
    Matt
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    NO OAR...NO SALE/NO RENTAL!
     
  3. DaveF

    DaveF Moderator
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  4. Matt Heebner

    Matt Heebner Stunt Coordinator

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    Sorry, but there isn't a television show out there that is worth a permanent tattoo on my $3000 TV.
    Also I think it's a pretty far stretch calling me ironic because I want the release of movies (and TV shows on DVD for that matter) in OAR, and me worrying about burned in images on my screen from 4:3 television programming!! Lets see how much fate you'll tempt with burn in and OAR with 4:3 programs.
    Matt
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    NO OAR...NO SALE/NO RENTAL!
    [Edited last by Matt Heebner on November 06, 2001 at 09:40 PM]
     
  5. DaveF

    DaveF Moderator
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    Not trying to pick a fight, but I do find it ironic: the passionate desire for OAR usually entails viewing it as such.
    And I am curious how delicate a RPTV is, regarding burn-in. I'd like to buy a new TV in the next six months. If I can't watch e.g. "Snow White" or "The West Wing" in 4:3 OAR without damaging a WS RPTV -- or, for that matter, watching a WS movie on a 4:3 RPTVb - then I'll not buy a RPTV.
     
  6. David_D

    David_D Stunt Coordinator

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    This is a big question for me too (regarding burn-in.) I am very close to purchasing a new TV, and rear-projection seemed to be the most cost-effective and practical way to get the screen size and image quality I want. However, I want to be able to watch Citizen Kane, Casablanca, and countless other 4:3 films in their original aspect ratio.
    If I can't do this without causing burn-in on an RPTV, then I'll be satisfied with a direct-view TV. I don't mind stretching network TV, but I want to watch classic films in the correct aspect ratio.
     
  7. Richard Kim

    Richard Kim Producer

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  8. Brian Cal

    Brian Cal Stunt Coordinator

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    Here's what I did. I watched "24" last night in the 4:3 mode with the grey bars on the side. Every time I got to a commercial, I flipped it into "stretch" mode to avoid burn in. This seemed to work fine, and I see no adverse effects on my TV whatsoever. I only seriously watch 4:3 material once in a blue moon, so I'm not too concerned about watching it in OAR when I do.
    Unfortunately, yes, there is kind of a sad irony in all of this. Let's face it, watching a movie like Citizen Kane in "stretch" mode is just plain wrong, but that's why I still have my old DVD player hooked up to my old 27" TV upstairs. If watching an old 4:3 movie in OAR is going to cause burn in on my RPTV, I would much rather watch it at half the size than in some mangled aspect ratio.
    [Edited last by Brian Cal on November 07, 2001 at 11:05 AM]
     
  9. Matt_Marlow

    Matt_Marlow Stunt Coordinator

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    Why doesn't anyone mention that 2.35:1 movies on DVD also have black bars? I'm guessing that FAR more people spend a significant amount of time watching 2.35:1 movies than 4:3 movies on their widescreen TVs, so there is probably more of a chance of burn-in from those than the occasional 4:3 movie like Casablanca.
    I use the stretch mode for regular TV, but I want to watch DVDs in their OAR, and that includes both 4:3 DVDs (probably about 2% of my overall DVD viewing) and 2.35:1 DVDs (probably about 60% of overall DVD viewing). So, I'd think that there is a FAR greater chance of uneven screen wear from horizontal black bars than there is for vertical black bars.
    And watching an occasional 4:3 disc is NOT going to result in uneven phosphor wear. It's a gradual process. If that were the case, I'll bet nearly all would have horizontal ghosting on their widescreen TVs from watching 2.35:1 films, since it seems like that's the most common aspect ratio.
     
  10. derek

    derek Second Unit

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  11. MichaelG

    MichaelG Second Unit

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    My 2 cents...
    I have had a widescreen TV for 4 years (Toshiba TW56F80). Immediately after getting it I calibrated the set and the contrast was turned down to around 37, brightness set to about 60. I have watched a LOT of 4:3 material, and show no signs of burn-in. I do watch a lot of 2.35:1 movies as well but not to the extent that I watch 4:3 material.
    I totally agree that 2.35:1 (or anything > 1.85:1) will induce burn-in long before 4:3 material if the TV displays gray bars on the sides. So far I haven't had any problems at all. If you properly calibrate your TV your risk should be greatly reduced (but not eliminated).
     
  12. Mike I

    Mike I Supporting Actor

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  13. Matt Heebner

    Matt Heebner Stunt Coordinator

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    I was only advocating the stretch mode for television shows on a widescreen RPTV...NOT movies. My TV is the main one in the house and is used for more television than movies.
    The original post was referring to television, and somehow got turned into OAR debate about classic movies and shows with a 4:3 aspect ratio.
    Damn people, I was just trying to help the original poster out. To DaveF..I already explained why I use stretch mode with television programming. Unfortunantly most TV programming is in 4:3 AR. If you are unwilling to make some compromises regarding such then you MIGHT risk burn in and a widescreen RPTV is not for you I guess.
    To Richard Kim...I actually vary my viewing ratio with tv shows. I watch some in normal 4:3, some of it in stretch. This is because I am also worried about station logos much more so than grey bars on the sides. If I were to watch a DVD of the Simpsons, whatever the OAR is is how I watch it. You need to understand that my house watches more tv shows than movies, and that need to be taken into consideration regarding burn in.
    Matt
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    NO OAR...NO SALE/NO RENTAL!
     
  14. Todd Hochard

    Todd Hochard Cinematographer

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    I'm thinking that burn in of grey bars, on a properly calibrated set, shouldn't be much of a problem. However, given that I spent $5000 for my set, I'm not about to be the guinea pig. [​IMG]
    I always watch movies in the correct mode- 4x3 Normal for 4x3 discs, Zoom for LBX non-anamorphic, and Full for the good stuff.
    However, for cartoons, 6:00 news, CNBC, etc, I couldn't care less if the image is stretched- so it goes in Natural Wide. Shows like ER (or the miniseries Uprising, for instance) in NTSC widescreen are like non-anamorphic discs- they can be Zoomed for a correct 16x9 fit. The resolution sucks, though. If NBC would jsut broadcast the HD signal, I wouldn't have to worry about it. [​IMG]
    So, to summarize- for the stuff that I care about, the aspect gets priority. For stuff that I don't, the TV gets priority.
    Todd
    P.S. I've not put together mattes yet, as I am too lazy these days. [​IMG]
     
  15. Pete_Jr

    Pete_Jr Stunt Coordinator

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    Just wanted to say I have had the Toshiba TW56F80 for about 6 yrs now and have always left it in 4:3 for regular TV viewing. Now I'm reading all this about it burning in the screen and YOU PEOPLE ARE WORRYING ME? LOL

    I always knew about the burn in but thought it was something you did after hours and hours and hours of something the same on the screen. Once you turn it off you get to start all over again(I'm a Fool Huh?)

    Well I just wanted to say after 6 yrs I have no trace of any burn in on this TV. I have the little scratches here and there from the kids when they were little that are unnoticeable when watching the TV.

    Other than that it is like it was brand new. I have never had to turn the brightness up yet or the contrast, BR=35 C=60.

    Well just wanted to let everyone know

    PETE
     
  16. Jeff Jorgensen

    Jeff Jorgensen Auditioning

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    Just a personal observation here, but couldn't they make some sort of "screen saver" for the unused portions of the screen.

    It wouldn't have to appear as an image it could just be random colors at random brightness. That should be enough to avoid phosphor burn in, and would appear as a bland gray field...

    wait a minute....
     
  17. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Executive Producer

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