Problem - rattle with B&W 602 s3 and LCR60

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Matt_Key, Mar 25, 2002.

  1. Matt_Key

    Matt_Key Agent

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    Hey guys, I have had a pair of 602 s3 and a LCR60 for almost 2 weeks now. I am powering them with a denon 3802. This weekend I noticed one of the 602s making a rattling noise when I played a certain electronic music song. So far I can make it rattle playing only 2 songs. It rattles when a bass synth is being played.

    The strange thing is it seems to play fine on many of my other songs. Of course I have not been able to play everything yet. My other 602 plays fine - no rattle. I swapped the speaker channels to make sure it isn't the source material. It isn't.

    Then I played the same 2 songs with just the center LCR60 and it rattles too!

    I don't think I blew these speakers. I have not gone past 0 on the denon and all channel levels are set to 0 db running small. And Ive been using them for less than 2 weeks.

    The rattle is coming from inside the front driver area on the 602 and the back area on the LCR60.

    Does this sound like a speaker defect, like they just cant handle certain sounds?

    I am taking them to the dealer tomorrow. He didn't sound too thrilled and thinks I blew them. Also tomorrow is the last day I have to return them with a 15% restock fee. So i may decide to eat $150 and get something a little more dependable. I thought B&W was high quality, but from my experience their 602 line isnt so great when it rattles.

    I am going to try and post a mp3 snippet of these rattling songs to my website so if any 600 series owners want to test their speakers I'd like to hear about your results.

    Thanks for any advice,

    Matt
     
  2. David CC

    David CC Auditioning

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    Matt,

    These are the same exact speakers(as well as the ASW-600 sub)that I had decided last weekend to purchase. I had also planned to get the denon 2802 receiver.

    Let me know what you find out.

    David
     
  3. James Bergeron

    James Bergeron Supporting Actor

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    If your other speaker doesn't rattle maybe you got a bad one, and a bad centre. Odd. B&W is a good speaker, you would be hard pressed to find a better built speaker and their warranty is great too.
     
  4. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer
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    Matt,

    It sounds like there is something loose in the speaker cabinet that may be resonating at certain frequencies. I would exchange them for new 602's, since this should be covered under warranty.

    FYI, there are many B&W 600 Series owners on this forum (me included), and this is the first time I have ever heard of any defect with the product. I've owned my 600 Series 2 setup for over three years now without any problems.
     
  5. matthew_rm

    matthew_rm Second Unit

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    Try screwing out the binding posts on the rattleing speaker all the way, and then putting them back in tight. Also, make sure it isn't something in the room shaking.

    Let us know what you find.
     
  6. Matt_Key

    Matt_Key Agent

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    Hey guys, Thanks for the feedback.
    Matthew, I checked the posts and outside vibrations, and it is definetly coming from inside the speaker.
    I have posted two mp3 clips of the songs that make my 602 rattle on my website. If you have some 602s and want to test yours out you can find the mp3s here:
    http://mattkey.home.mindspring.com
    I only bothered to do this, because so far every other song I have played sounds fine.
    I really like the 602s and I think they sound great for music and HT, other than this annoying rattle. Well its off to the dealer tomorrow.
    Matt
     
  7. Matt_Key

    Matt_Key Agent

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    OK, I am back from my B&W dealer and he identified a defect with the 602 s3. Something is making the driver mount vibrate. It's like the screws are loose, but they are not. The interesting thing is that we got the two 601 s3 on display in the store to vibrate too!

    So it seems like a manufacturing defect. The CDM 1NTs on display did not vibrate.

    I told the dealer I was interested in a refund and he said he can have all three speakers replaced, and they would be replaced with a modified design of some sort. So it may take a couple weeks to get them.

    I hope I can hold out. I was auditioning the paradigm studio 20s as well. Which sounded nice, but some cds were a bit too bright.

    Matt
     
  8. James_N_H

    James_N_H Stunt Coordinator

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    I am surprised to hear about your B&W speakers, I also have the LCR60-3 and I use the 601 S3's as rears and have experienced no problems at all. You say that your speakers developed the problem after 2weeks? Can I ask was this when playing at high volumes? If so you should not have been running them at high volumes after only 2weeks, both my 601's and the LCR60-3 I have had since january and none are ran in properly yet, I also use the 605 S2's as mains and have had those for about 5months now and the mid range kevlar driver has just started to loosen up, the 605's have probably been on everyday since I got them so it is not due to lack of use. If you have used them at high volumes I believe you should simply get them replaced and run them in properly before using them at high volumes. Hope this may be of some help.

    James
     
  9. Matt_Key

    Matt_Key Agent

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    Hi James, I made it a point not to play the speakers too loud the first couple days of owning them. But after 5-7 hours of moderate volume I did crank them up to 0 on my denon 3802 (goes to +10) this is no where near clipping. Any high quality speaker should be able to play at this level without 50 hours break-in.

    The problem isn't with a blown driver, but with how the driver is mounted to the cabinet. Again you can not hear the vibration on the majority of recordings. The 2 mp3 clips I have posted may demonstrate the problem I am having if you set your 601s as mains. To test your LCR60 you should disable the mains, surrounds, and sub play in 5 channel stereo and listen for a vibration coming from the back of the cabinet.

    You may hear it or you may not. One of my 602s did not vibrate. One did, the lcr60 did, and the 2 601s in the store did.

    Good luck!

    Matt
     
  10. James_N_H

    James_N_H Stunt Coordinator

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    Think I will take a pass on trying to find the rattle, I do disagree with you running them at such high volumes with so little use, the main reason is they use the kevlar drivers and they are incredibly stiff. I also think you may still have caused the problem as the speakers parts inside, including the drive mounting part will not have settled properly with such little use, and by turning them up so high and causing that amount of vibration will have probably caused them to come loose, the amp may not have been clipping but the speakers do require at least 48hours run in at moderate volumes. I did a similar thing when I got some Mission M74's last year and ran them too hard at first and they rattled inside but the rattle gradually decreased with proper use, but we all learn from our mistakes. I also believe you will be making a big mistake in changing your speakers from B&W as everything I have tested in the price range of the series 3's, nothing comes close.
     
  11. Matt_Key

    Matt_Key Agent

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    James, I am not going to argue over the subjectivity of break-in time and volume. But I will disagree with you stating that I misused and made a mistake with my 602s.

    If they were truly misused the dealer would be repairing my old ones not replacing them with a modified design.

    I am not here to bash B&W, and I respect everyone's pride and right to defend the speakers they own. As well I am eagerly awaiting my new 602s.

    Matt
     
  12. James_N_H

    James_N_H Stunt Coordinator

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    I am not asking to argue and I am not nescessarily defending B&W I am just trying to speak from experience, I damaged my Mission M74's, my Mordaunt short MS25i's before that and back in the days I was into mini and midi systems I caused more than enough rattles from a lack of run-in when I first got the systems, I have finally learnt from my mistakes and refused to make the same one with my B&W's.

    I will still say that you definately should not have ran them at your receivers maximum volume before clipping starts on the first day that you had them, remember chances are the boxes the speakers where in will have been stored in a relatively cold area which may well have been damp. I did not state they where truly misused, but in this case it would not be difficult to say to the dealer that they just started rattling for no reason as if the drivers have not blown they would have no way of proving otherwise.
     
  13. Matt_Key

    Matt_Key Agent

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    Ok, If you read my post again it says I ran them loud after 5-7 hours of moderate volume (not 1st day). And this loud volume was no where near clipping. It sounded clean. I did not even discover the rattle until a week later when these specific songs made it rattle.

    So basically it comes down to - you think it rattles from improper break-in, while my dealer and I think it is a defect. Nuff said.
     
  14. James_N_H

    James_N_H Stunt Coordinator

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    That may be the case, but have you told your dealer that you ran them at 00db with only 5-7hours moderate break in?
     
  15. Matt_Key

    Matt_Key Agent

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    He asked me how loud I played them. I told him. He wasn't concerned with break-in time.
     

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