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Princess Mononoke Blu-Ray "dubtitl"e screwup...

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Carlo Medina, Nov 19, 2014.

  1. Carlo Medina

    Carlo Medina Executive Producer

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    Ugh, I was so excited to get my three Miyazaki films this week, they arrived from Amazon today. I just read this on The Bits' review of Princess Mononoke:
    Ugh - why Disney would you use dubtitles when you already had perfectly good subtitles to use?!?!?! Two choices of them in fact.

    Now I'm torn as to whether or not to open the package and hope Disney corrects this major, major error and does a mail-in exchange, or just return it to Amazon unopened. This is poorly done by Disney. I could understand if they didn't have any good subs to work with and didn't want to spend money on making one, but the fact that there are already two out there...it's unforgivable not to use one or the other (or both, with user selectable options like Criterion often does with their Japanese movies).

    At minimum I'm going to write a "sternly worded email" to Disney expressing my displeasure and see what they say. Way to ruin what should have been a joyous celebration of a trio of Miyazaki BD releases.
     
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  2. Ejanss

    Ejanss Banned
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    As raised in the other thread on the subject, and the tortured, complex history of Disney's rights agreements regarding PM...maybe they DIDN'T have them.
    They are, however, perfectly allowed use the subs they wrote themselves.
    [color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:'Merriweather Sans', sans-serif;background-color:rgb(247,247,247);]("Rethought"....(snicker!) Yeah, I remember how they "suddenly" came up with the idea. :P[/color] )
     
  3. Edwin-S

    Edwin-S Lead Actor
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    I almost bought this and "Kiki's Delivery Service" today, but I kept thinking that there was talk here about Disney using dubtitles instead of properly translated subtitle tracks. Good thing I skipped buying them. Disney under Iger is even worse than it was under Eisner's reign. The pulling of Blu-ray 3D releases in North America, sky-high pricing of their BDs and theme park admissions and now, once again, the mishandling of Studio Ghibli releases. It's amazing that films like "Wreck-It Ralph" and "Big Hero Six" could manage to be made with that clod in charge of things.
     
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  4. Ahab

    Ahab Stunt Coordinator

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    I know it is expensive, but I've been buying the Japanese BD's of these wonderful anime movies. It is worth it to avoid the frustration and anger resulting from these screw-ups by Disney.
     
  5. Carlo Medina

    Carlo Medina Executive Producer

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    What's curious is that the two English subs on the back of the packaging for Kiki and Mononoke are: English ESL and English SDH. Now I don't know what ESL may mean elsewhere, but here in academia land (where I work) that's English as a Second Language. And SDH is Subtitled for the Deaf and Hearing Impaired, which contains written cues about film noises (like "Door creaks open" or "Loud offscreen noise").

    Meanwhile for Wind Rises, it's English and English SDH (no ESL on English).

    So it looks like Kiki may also suffer the same fate as Mononoke? If so I won't open either one and will likely return them to Amazon and explore the Japanese BDs.

    Ahab/Hal - are they region free? Do you have a recommended trusted source? I haven't bought Japanese BDs before. Thanks!
     
  6. Carlo Medina

    Carlo Medina Executive Producer

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    For those who wish to help, please go here to Disney's feedback page and let them know you want proper subtitles, which are true English translations of the original Japanese dialogue, and not simply dubtitles that match the English language track, for Princess Mononoke and Kiki's Delivery Service:
    http://www.disneystudioshelp.com/contact-bddvd.html
     
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  7. Ejanss

    Ejanss Banned
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    (Continuing to hammer away at the brick fan-wall--)You might wish to diplomatically phrase it in the form of a question of whether Disney still even HAS the original Japanese-provided subtitles as mastered by Ghibli fifteen years ago. You might even get an answer.
     
  8. Lord Dalek

    Lord Dalek Producer

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    Its a common thread that if said Ghibli film came out on dvd before 2004 (IE: Laputa, Kiki's, now Mononoke) it probably has dubtitles on its most recent release. That's a bit of a bad omen for Spirited Away.
     
  9. EddieLarkin

    EddieLarkin Supporting Actor

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    Ghibli have been handing over the proper subtitles for every other foreign release along with their master. Disney got the master, so why wouldn't they also be able to get the subtitles? It's not an issue of them "still" having them.
     
  10. Ejanss

    Ejanss Banned
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    Over on the other threads, there's been some debate about how much of Mononoke disney does actually have the rights to--
    Originally, the '99 deal only specified a movie dub in theaters, but nothing much about disk rights to the audio/sub translation, which had to be hammered out later when they, as the article puts it, "rethought" their DVD release. :D

    Disney's PM ownership has always confused most of the fans since, but Dalek's point about the subs since '04 may suggest it's a little stickier than just that one movie.
     
  11. Ahab

    Ahab Stunt Coordinator

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    Yes, they are region free. I've been picking mine up from yesasia.com. Been doing business with them for years without a problem.
    But you could check out amazon.jp. Am sure they would provide reliable service.
     
  12. Carlo Medina

    Carlo Medina Executive Producer

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    Thanks Hal, so before I return all my Disney discs and buy the more expensive Japanese discs, I take it they're the same high A/V quality, with properly translated subs? I'll assume I'm missing bonus features that Disney included, but at this point, best A/V presentation with accurate subtitles is paramount.
     
  13. Ahab

    Ahab Stunt Coordinator

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    Well I don't think you need worry about the A/V quality. Will have to go through a few of them and compare the English dub to the subtitles. I usually watch these in Japanese with English subtitles. It is my understanding that the subtitles are translations from the Japanese and not dubtitles. Also, all the extra features that I have seen on the discs are in Japanese with no English subtitles.

    There is a thread over at that 'other blu ray forum' which includes a comparison of all the Ghibli blu ray releases. It is titled: Studio Ghibli Blu-ray - Which edition to choose? (Comparison of editions).

    Since the Japanese blu rays are expensive you might want to peruse that thread to see if you think the extra cost is justified.
     
  14. EddieLarkin

    EddieLarkin Supporting Actor

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    All of the Japanese Ghibli Blu-rays have properly translated subs, barring Kiki's Delivery Service which uses the Streamline dubtitles (much superior to the Disney dubtitles found on the US disc, and the best official subtitle track that exists). The Japanese track is always the original and always lossless (though the post Dolby Digital discs default to the 2.0 option instead of the 5.1/6.1 option, so you'll need to switch). The picture quality is always on par with or sometimes a fraction superior to the US Blu-rays owing to better compression. The English subs are selectable from the player subtitle menu and the discs auto play the feature so you don't need to navigate the Japanese menus, except in the case of Castle in the Sky, which for some reason doesn't let you choose from the subtitle menu. It's simple enough to find the right options in the main menu though:

    http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=7764383&postcount=355

    The last screenshot on that page is incorrect by the way, you can switch the Japanese subtitles off during the Castle in the Sky dub with the pop up menu. The dubs on the other discs can just be selected from the player audio menu.
     
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  15. AnthonyClarke

    AnthonyClarke Screenwriter

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    How about the UK editions such as Nausicaa of the Valley?

    Has anyone checked which subtitles are used?

    The UK editions would certainly be a lot cheaper than the Japanese!
     
  16. Derrick King

    Derrick King Supporting Actor

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    I believe the UK editions have proper subtitles (or at least the same subs as the Japanese releases), but they've been hit with DNR erasing the grain, so the video quality is nowhere near the Japanese or US releases. So the most economic choice is to go with the HK Blu-rays as they look the same as the Japanese and US Blus and have the same English subs as the Japanese releases, but they don't have the same amount of extras and what extras are there do not have English subs.
     
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  17. AnthonyClarke

    AnthonyClarke Screenwriter

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    I don't really care about the lack of extras so the HK editions sound the way to go !
    I'll try to locate an online HK retailer....
     
  18. EddieLarkin

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    Yeah StudioCanal likes to degrain their Ghibli films unfortunately:

    http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?art=part&x=269&y=222&action=1&image=0&hd_multiID=328&cap1=27032&cap2=21137&disc1=2929&disc2=2284&lossless=#vergleich

    They do use the same subs as the Japanese releases.

    The HK and TW versions are fine though they ditch the dub track in most cases. But there are some problems with the sub tracks on some of the HK releases, though I'm sure not sure which ones. Nausicaa's has punctuation removed and random quotation marks are added when not needed for some reason:

    http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=6038773&postcount=8

    I got the Japanese releases to save myself the hassle.
     
  19. Russell G

    Russell G Fake Shemp

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    What a mess. I've held off on buying any Miyazaki blu's, and looks like I will continue. Are any of them "Done right"?
     
  20. Lord Dalek

    Lord Dalek Producer

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    They're all fine save for Laputa (which had awful subs the first go around), Kiki's (which was technically always dubtitled), and Mononoke (either due to Toho which I don't think gets a say in the matter as much as Tokuma Shoten/BVS Japan or Miramax). Ponyo has a lossy Japanese track due to either compression issues or a simple oversight.

    Spirited Away WAS supposed to come out this month, it might be this subtitle issue that delayed it.
     

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