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Presumed Innocent/Frantic Blu-Ray - Double Feature Review (2 Viewers)

Ralphie_B

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Thanks for taking the initiative, and I hope you get a response soon! I'll confess I've never seen the film, but I am interested in it. I was very close to purchasing the Blu-Ray, until I heard about the dialog strangeness... I've been waiting for it to be resolved, as I don't want my first viewing of the film to be of an incorrect version.
 

James Luckard

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Originally Posted by Ralphie_B
Thanks for taking the initiative, and I hope you get a response soon!
Thanks! I still can't quite believe I simply called Roman Polanski in France, but it was surprisingly easy and they were shockingly nice in his office. I figured they might think I was some kind of nut, but then again if his asst worked on FRANTIC, she's no doubt aware of the bizarre makeup of the "French" audio track they created at the time.

By the way, Amazon.co.uk has recently updated their description of the DVD:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Frantic-DVD-Harrison-Ford/dp/B00004CZQU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1300315418&sr=8-1

It now says the following:


DVD Description
Please note that this DVD contains a French language soundtrack that is a blended mixture of English and French and not entirely in French. The DVD has French subtitles that provide a translation for the dialogue parts of the French soundtrack that are spoken in English.

That has to be one of the more confusing disclaimers I've ever seen.
 

Hasslein

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Jim
Thank you for the relentless pursuit. I have held of buying this and mentioned the problem on other sites hoping to help it get resolved... I would hate to see the true version vanish forever...
 

James Luckard

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Wow!!!! Victory!!!!

I just received this email today, forwarded by his assistant:
_________________________________________

Dear James Luckard,

Thank you for bringing to my attention the soundtrack problem of Frantic on the new Blu-Ray. I am currently in touch with Warner Brothers who are apparently making necessary steps to correct the problem. I am trying to stay on top of it.
Best wishes,
Roman Polanski
_________________________________________

I say again, Wow!!!

I'm actually reading his autobiography right now. It's surreal to receive an email from the man whose words about film school in Lodz in the 50s I was reading before bed last night.

I asked his assistant to keep me updated on the progress of the corrected Blu-Ray.

Not a bad Friday:)
 

cafink

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Wow, that's wonderful news. Great job on pursuing a solution!
 

Matt Hough

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Originally Posted by James Luckard
Wow!!!! Victory!!!!

I just received this email today, forwarded by his assistant:
_________________________________________

Dear James Luckard,

Thank you for bringing to my attention the soundtrack problem of Frantic on the new Blu-Ray. I am currently in touch with Warner Brothers who are apparently making necessary steps to correct the problem. I am trying to stay on top of it.
Best wishes,
Roman Polanski
_________________________________________

I say again, Wow!!!

I'm actually reading his autobiography right now. It's surreal to receive an email from the man whose words about film school in Lodz in the 50s I was reading before bed last night.

I asked his assistant to keep me updated on the progress of the corrected Blu-Ray.

Not a bad Friday:)
Congratulations on your persistence about this bringing about a response. I hope you'll continue to keep us updated about any further progress in the process of correction.
 

James Luckard

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James Luckard
Originally Posted by MattH.
Congratulations on your persistence about this bringing about a response. I hope you'll continue to keep us updated about any further progress in the process of correction.
I'll definitely keep everyone updated.

One of my coworkers suggested I ask his assistant for a signed copy of the new Blu-Ray when it's produced, which seems fair:)
 

PeterK939

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That's incredible - well done James. Frantic was on last week on one of the Sky Movies channels - I went to order it on Blu-Ray, and then saw your review on amazon; tbh I wouldn't let the audio track problem be a (complete) show-stopper, but I can wait a while longer now.
Having said that, the different audio tracks are mildly (ok very ) annoying. In the initial Hotel Reception scene, Betty Buckley asks the hotel receptionist to hold all calls in French - the whole point of the scene was that she was able to speak french, and the receptionist was understandably impressed. The DVD version I have (Region 2) has the dialogue in English.

According to imdb.com there was 15 minutes of deleted footage - I'm inclined to believe it - it struck me as odd there was no Paris Metro scene - apparently there was a still from the Movie at one of the Metro stations (sorry, can't find the link now - might have been on the imdb message boards). If you are in contact, is there any chance you could request these scenes be added to the potential future blu-ray edition ?

btw - it's on again in a couple of hours on UTV - it'll be interesting to see which audio track it uses
 

James Luckard

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Originally Posted by PeterK939

1) Having said that, the different audio tracks are mildly (ok very ) annoying. In the initial Hotel Reception scene, Betty Buckley asks the hotel receptionist to hold all calls in French - the whole point of the scene was that she was able to speak french, and the receptionist was understandably impressed. The DVD version I have (Region 2) has the dialogue in English.

2) According to imdb.com there was 15 minutes of deleted footage - I'm inclined to believe it - it struck me as odd there was no Paris Metro scene - apparently there was a still from the Movie at one of the Metro stations (sorry, can't find the link now - might have been on the imdb message boards). If you are in contact, is there any chance you could request these scenes be added to the potential future blu-ray edition ?

btw - it's on again in a couple of hours on UTV - it'll be interesting to see which audio track it uses
1) I rewatched that scene, looking more closely at the desk clerk's expression, but all he does is quickly smile back at her. I never got that the smile was a reaction to the quality of her French, only a polite smile by a hotel employee. I don't think the wife was meant to speak French very well at all - when she orders breakfast from room service, the one point she speaks French in the American version, she mangles the order so much that the operator has to correct her.

2) I'd completely forgotten about that. Good call. I'll ask his assistant, perhaps they still have the deleted scenes.

517b5f28_frantic-1988-01-g.jpg


This seems to be an alternate version of the scene in the garage, where they try to hand over the statue to get his wife back, but end up in a car chase. Note how he's holding the statue, to cover the fact that they broke it and found what's inside. She's also wearing the same costume as in that scene in the finished film. The garage scene being a reshoot makes sense, as that would be a super-cheap location. I wonder why the Metro version was abandoned though.

I've also read tales of a sex scene with Ford and Seigner that was cut, as well as an alternate ending where his wife is revealed to have been in league with the terrorists. I don't know about the truth of those, but this photo confirms at least one deleted scene.
 

PeterK939

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Top man again - thanks for that photo.

Yeah I saw the posting about the wife being in league with the terrorists - I took that whole post with a grain of salt. I'd be more inclined to believe the wife was killed originally, and that's why the studio forced the ending to be re-shot (no pun intended )
 

James Luckard

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I agree, the alternate ending story sounds ridiculous.

By the way, the site where I found that photo has a gallery of over 30 hi-def stills from the film, including many behind the scenes photos.

http://www.toutlecine.com/images/

Just search Frantic.

These two publicity photos are my favorites:

0594e411_frantic-1988-13-g.jpg


Can anyone tell this is one of my favorite films?:)
 

Dave GR

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93
James, well done for this! Great news. Frantic is one of my very favourite films, so here's hoping WB do finally fix it now.
 

Will*B

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Absolutely incredible. You've definitely gone above and beyond with this!

As someone who's been following this thread since the very start (and even having experienced the crushing disappointment of the French release!), I'm very, very pleased that it looks like we're heading towards a solution - mandated by Mr. Polanski himself.

Again, well done James and many thanks.
 

Harry-N

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I'm finding this whole soundtrack flap rather fascinating.

First, I never knew that a basically English soundtrack existed with a few additional French lines dubbed in by the original actors. And it's right to question why, in a film, an American who allegedly cannot speak French is doing just that. Yet I can forgive that a bit. I'm certainly not fluent in German, though I studied it in school many years ago, and find that when in German-speaking countries, I can and *do* lapse into a small amount of German - things like asking how much something costs or what time it is. But when the locals speak back to me, they are usually going so fast and with various and sundry dialects, that I generally don't understand a good 75% of what they're saying.

Second, I'm all for getting proper versions of films onto DVD and Blu-Ray. Heaven knows, we've seen enough variations over the years - let's just get it right. But that leads to the question, "What is right?" And I'm happy that "James Luckard" is asking the questions of the right people. I'll be eager to hear the answer.

As it turns out, I'm only a recent adopter of Blu-Ray - and I'm not leaping into it in any kind of big way. I did the conversion of movie libraries now too many times - home taped to purchased VHS; the VHS to LaserDisc; and then LaserDisc to DVD. I'm not prepared to really leap wholeheartedly to another format - even if it is superior. I got a nice Blu-Ray player for Christmas and I'm enjoying what I've seen, but I'm content, for the most part, with the DVD collection and the way it looks on the combination of my TV and with the upconverting Blu-Ray player.

That said, one of the first things I ordered on Blu-Ray was the FRANTIC/PRESUMED INNOCENT combo. I'd had the miserable DVD for a few years always waiting for something better to come along. When I read the the Blu-Ray version of FRANTIC would finally be widescreen, I knew it was a title I had to have. So this past January, I got and watched FRANTIC.

Now, I have to admit that upon hearing Mr. Ford speak his few French lines, it *did* sound a bit different to me, but not enough that I sat up and said, "Something's wrong." It just sort of floated by as another new detail I was witnessing in this new media transfer. Now, reading about it, I've dug out the old DVD and compared the two and it's obvious that the Blu-Ray has some different audio passages. It seems to occur when Harrison Ford is facing away from the camera, so there's no tell-tale sign of the dubbing from him, yet we can clearly see the hotel staff speaking English but we're hearing French in a few instances.

Whatever the reason, whether intentional or through a mistaken placement of a different soundtrack, I can live with the film on Blu-Ray as it is. The few French lines don't matter all that much to me. It looks better than it ever has and is largely in the correct language for me, so I'm happy. If a replacement program were offered (though I don't expect that at all), I'd probably participate. If a later re-release happens with the corrected soundtrack, I *might* double (quadruple) dip, but possibly not. It would depend on price/availability and my financial status at the time.

Harry
 

James Luckard

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Harry,
I agree, it's a thoroughly bizarre and confusing situation. If it were only as simple as a complete French dubbed track, it'd be one thing, but the care with which certain lines were chosen to be dubbed for the French theatrical release is something that mystifies me. The scene that really stands out to me is when Ford talks with the little man outside the bar and finds his wife's bracelet. He switches into and out of French with complete ease. This undercuts the entire central tension of the film - that he is unable to communicate properly with anyone around him. I'd imagine this would have the same impact on a French viewer as it does on me.

That scene and the one with the cops interrogating Emanuelle Seigner are what really make this current BR unwatchable for me, though every instance of French escaping from Ford's mouth grates my ears. Yes, the scene in Seigner's apartment could be read as two French cops speaking to a French woman (if only there were subtitles), but two things make that not work. First, one is meant to be American. Second, and more importantly, Ford responds to things they've said, now in French, when he walks out naked.

I rewatched THE TENANT recently, and it's a slight linguistic cousin to FRANTIC. It's also set in Paris and has a cast that's half American and half French, though they're all playing French characters in THE TENANT. All the actors speak their native tongue, and each half gets dubbed for the other's audio track. Polanski dubs himself in both versions. I found the American actress who dubs Isabelle Adjani dreadful though, so I ended up switching language tracks throughout the film to hear each actor in their native language.

I also noticed Polanski does a clever trick he repeats in Frantic. Whenever minor characters speak (waiters, bellboys, etc). They invariably either turn away from the camera or have some prop or piece of the set obscuring their mouth. It means when the scene will inevitably be redubbed, the lip movements won't be an issue. He does a bit of this in FRANTIC as well, while never making it obtrusive. But then of course the man's a genius.

It has, by now, been established without question that the "English" audio track on the BR is an error. It's an error some people can live with, I recognize that. However it's one of my favorite films, and I can't wait for the day I can pop in a corrected disc and see the version Polanski intended English-speaking audiences to see, the one I've seen so many times that I recognize the placement of every single sound. :)
 

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