Pre-recorded Hi-Def Movies on DVHS?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by GlennH, Sep 26, 2001.

  1. GlennH

    GlennH Cinematographer

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    (Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere -- I'm focusing on the potential for a new software format, so I put it here.)
    In his latest HDTV Insider Newsletter e-mail (Issue 15, apparently the last one to be distributed free), Gary Merson gives a preview of an interview with Mark Cuban (owner of hdnet.com) to be published soon in Issue 16.
    He mentions that Cuban tells him about his plans to sell (at hdnet.com) pre-recorded Hollywood movies in 1080i HD on DVHS tape, with sales to begin within 30 days of JVC and Mitsubishi shipping DVHS machines. According to JVC that will be by the end of this month. Prices for the pre-recorded tapes will be $20 to $30.
    What do folks think about this? Here are my initial thoughts:
    I'll believe it when I see it. I assume Cuban provides more details in the interview. I'd be very curious to know what movies will be available in this format. I find it hard to believe Hollywood is willing to support this with any vigor at this point. Are these DVHS decks really shipping soon, or will there be last minute holdups due to legal/licensing issues (like with DVD-Audio) which will delay them for many months or years?
    I'd be very interested in buying a DVHS deck if the price was right and the software was there, but I remain skeptical. So far Hollywood has been very reluctant to broadcast any top movies in HD, let alone sell pre-recorded versions.
    [Edited last by Glenn Heberle on September 26, 2001 at 04:39 PM]
     
  2. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

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    They can stick their linear, easily damaged tape up their...
    Sorry if I seem a bit put off, but it's bloody well time that we get something truly high definition with random access and durability like a perfected FMD HD-DVD disc and HD-DVD/DVD players, and then appropriate processors with the following:
    Disc:
    1920x1080p, 1.78:1 native video with low or (even better) lossless compression. OAR must be maintained. 4:4:4 professional component ratio. ~24 fps and ~30 fps compatibility must be allowed.
    One primary track: Audiophile grade 1.0 up to 7.1 (or possibly 8.1) discrete Direct Stream Digital (8 bit version would be ideal, but 1 bit is acceptable if space is an issue) or at the least 24 bit/96 kHz PCM encoding technology lossless compressed.
    One backup track: full bitrate 24/96 DTS 5.1 or DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 track. Can be phased out as necessary DSD or PCM decoders gain in the marketplace.
    Up to six very high compressed audio commentary tracks. You don't need high fidelity for these.
    Two or three subtitle streams of high quality and bit depth-- any font or color can be used. No blocky, video arcade-like rubbish as we get with DVD now.
    ALL video supplements go onto a second disc unless the movie or TV show's length permits it. Priority goes to the highest video and audio quality.
    An over the average length movie can go onto a second disc to again maintain quality.
    Seamless layer changes (I'm not sure how FMD handles this as it has multiple data layers).
    2.35:1 anamorphic enhancement (the screen matting can do the cropping to the SMPTE required 2.39:1 ratio). 2.0:1 and wider films get this feature (those ratios from 2.0:1 to below 2.35:1 get windowboxing, 2.35:1 movies are shown normally enhanced with no black bars, and those wider than 2.35:1 have very slight letterboxing on the top and bottom of the frame). It allows most or all of the pixels to be utilized during the telecine transfer for the highest resolution possible of wider than normal movies. This also lets people upgrade to constant height/variable width 2.39:1 ratio front projection screens with masking, and 16x9 digital projectors with add on anamorphic lenses. With digital projectors coming down in price this would be a great boost for this segment of the hobby.
    Players:
    HD-DVD and DVD compatible.
    Extra high bandwidth DVI digital video outputs for 1920x1080p digital video. Signal can be down scaled in-player to 1080i or 720p for those displays that can't handle 1080p.
    Analog RGB and component video that can output down scaled 1080i, 720p, 480p, and 480i signals. S-Video and RCA composite for 480i signals.
    Internal, high quality digital scaling where you can dial in your display's native resolution and refresh rate, or send the un-touched, unprocessed video signal out if you so choose.
    Extra high bandwidth FireWire IEEE digital audio outputs for ultra high resolution primary track or any other track on the disc.
    Coaxial and Toslink optical digital audio outputs for stereo PCM, DTS, audio commentary, etc. tracks for backwards compatibility.
    High caliber downconversion scaling of 2.35:1 enhanced HD-DVDs and 16x9 (1.78:1) enhanced DVDs.
    Rugged transport mechanism.
    Low jitter clocking circuitry for video and audio streams.
    How about that??
    Dan
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    Stop HDCP and 5C-- Your rights are at risk!
    [Edited last by Dan Hitchman on September 28, 2001 at 12:21 AM]
     
  3. Paul W

    Paul W Second Unit

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    And on top of that, I want a pony too!
    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG] Paul Warren
    Hey fella . . . I bet you're still livin' in your parent's cellar . . . downloading pictures of Sarah Michelle Gellar . . . and posting "Me too!" like some brain-dead AOL-er . . . I should do the world a favor and cap ya' like Old Yeller . . . you're just about as useless as MPEGs [sic] to Hellen Keller.
     
  4. RobertR

    RobertR Lead Actor

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    Dan makes reference to it in his signature, but to expand on it, the OTHER problem with these tapes is that they would in all likelihood use one of the copy protection schemes Dan mentions. What does this mean? That any HD display device we currently have is USELESS for watching these tapes UNLESS we pay who knows HOW much for an ADDITIONAL digital encryption device that will have the potential to severely limit (including pay per view) how MUCH we can watch them (sound like a discredited scheme we all hated?). Now that may not be Cuban's motive, but you can BET that would be the motivation of the STUDIOS. Given that, I would NOT buy into this.
     
  5. Brian Harnish

    Brian Harnish Screenwriter

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    Screw DVHS. I'm not buying it -- I WON'T buy it -- and I'll be damned if I DO buy it.
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    - Brian
    My DVD Collection
    Want Sliders on DVD? Then please SIGN the petition!
    [Edited last by Brian Harnish on September 26, 2001 at 10:47 PM]
     
  6. GlennH

    GlennH Cinematographer

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    Well, let me clarify.
    I'd be interested in obtaining a DVHS deck if it was the only way to get true Hi-Def content in a home video product, and if it worked with current HD-ready sets with analog component video like my Elite, i.e., none of this next-generation DVI, etc., copy protection requirements unless there was an easy plug-in module for my set, and if I owned the software and could watch it unlimited times, i.e., no pay-per-view DIVX-like garbage.
    Obviously I'd prefer a non-linear optical storage medium of some sort to clunky old tape. I support Dan's specs [​IMG] . And I want a pony too.
    I just don't believe we're going to see any of this anytime soon. Should be interesting.
    [Edited last by Glenn Heberle on September 27, 2001 at 01:02 AM]
     
  7. LARUE

    LARUE Stunt Coordinator

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    I don't think they're done selling us DVDs yet. Then we'll get HD software.
    LARUE [​IMG]
    and dream on Dan! [​IMG]
    [Edited last by LARUE on September 27, 2001 at 01:58 AM]
     
  8. Mark_Wilson

    Mark_Wilson Screenwriter

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    Wheres the porn industry when you need them? They've always been at the for front of technology (ie. web, dvd). Can you imagine what an HD porno would be like? hmmm...not sure if that a good or bad thing.
     
  9. ChrisA

    ChrisA Second Unit

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    It is hard to resist getting a true Hi-DEF 1080i master, even if it is on D-VHS. Sure I'd prefer HD-DVD with something like FMD technology, but I believe bandwidth of DVHS is curently even larger than that of FMD technology.
    I certainly loo forward to the day when we don't need scalers anymore--think about it... TERANEX, Snell and Wilcox, al these expensive devices can't even come close to producing an image like that of a hi-def master. Scaling an image is B.S. We need the Hi-def master. The only problem is that we would need to convert 1080i into 1080p, I assume, which would still require de-interlacing.. ACK, but at least we wouldn't need to SCALE the picture. You are talking A REAL HD PICTURE, not some low-fi 480i picture that has been interpolated and upscaled to death.
    We need a discrete tactile channel from 0-600 Hz (obviously not demanding at all in terms of bandwidth or storage). I hear Lucas, according to the two major tactile transducer companies, is intersted in perfecting tactile transduction, and perhaps providing a hollywood supported discrete tactile transducer chanel, containing 'full range tactile' effects (0-600 Hz), proper volume and proportions of tactile, special effects, natural feeling tactile stimulus, and since it is a discrete channel, only tactile information would go into that channel, no vocals or improper information from the soundtrack.
    I'd like to see lossless compression for audio reach movies, but we can't even get 3:1 full rate DTS. Half rate 6:1 DTS doesn't set itself far enough apart from DD to be worthwhile IMO, but DTS at 3:1 is worthwhile IMO.
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    Pictures: The Worm Hole Theater featuring the Black Hole Subs and Death Star Platform
    [Edited last by ChrisA on September 27, 2001 at 08:43 AM]
     
  10. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

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    ChrisA:
    They can do true 1080p high-def masters on professional D-6 digital tape.
    Why have a primary DTS or DD lossy track when you CAN do at least 7.1 discrete DSD (lossless compressed) right now. Sony and others have studio consoles for sale that can do just that now even at uncompressed 8 bit quality. Aim high. [​IMG]
    FMD is only in its infancy. Over 1 Terabyte of data storage per disc just using red lasers. If they moved to a blue or purple laser... wow!!
    Also FMD doesn't use a metal substrate, so no more "laser rot."
    Dan
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    Stop HDCP and 5C-- Your rights are at risk!
    [Edited last by Dan Hitchman on September 28, 2001 at 12:32 AM]
     
  11. Roland Wandinger

    Roland Wandinger Stunt Coordinator

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  12. ChrisA

    ChrisA Second Unit

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    1080p D-VHS sounds fine with me! Until FMD optical technology can match it, I sure as hell would welcome it.
     
  13. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

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    ChrisA:
    What systems have you heard DSD on? To these ears, so far DSD is better than 24/96 PCM/MLP. And DSD encoded discs don't use audio watermarking. Plus, DSD can do 8 channel discrete.
    Dan
    ------------------
    Stop HDCP and 5C-- Your rights are at risk!
     

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