PRE-PRO/AMP vs FLAGSHIP ,not what you'd think?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Tung Enkhych, Jun 19, 2002.

  1. Tung Enkhych

    Tung Enkhych Extra

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    I am a firm supporter of seperates, but I would like to shine the light of reason on this endless debate.
    I have heard pre-pro/ amp combinations that HAVE NOT delivered as good a performance as some of the High Current rcvrs out there.
    I am (mostly) refering to 2 differant scenarios...
    a.) the low-end, low-powered , multi-channel(5/6/7) amps
    coupled with noisy ,or otherwise lower quality pre-amps (or cheap rcvrs with lousy pre-out section, but thats another discussion).
    b.) miss-matched multiple amps (monos,2 or 3 channel)

    Now, to be fair most seperate amp mnfgrs make BEEFY, non-current-limiting amps that out-perform what is found in most rcvrs...but not all.
    And, I love the fact that most better amp mnfgrs make MATCHED AMPS in 2 and 3 channel varieties (or monos ,etc.)
    But, I have encountered people who have not done seperates "WELL"
    And ,I would like to see how many people here can relate
    instances where they have heard pre-amp/amp combos that were outperformed by High-End rcvrs....
    Or, I would like too find out if this is a sacred cow that just can't be gored>>>..............
     
  2. Jeff Kohn

    Jeff Kohn Supporting Actor

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    mooooooooooooo [​IMG]
    I've often wondered about the fact that some people have setups with multiple amps from different manufacturers; it seems to me that this could be an issue, similar to the timbre issue with speakers (though I would think amp coloration plays less of a role than timbre-matching the speakers). This concern played a part in my choosing the Outlaw 770 amp, even though I might have been able to save a some money by purchasing multiple 2- or 3-channel amps. (rack-space also was an issue, though).
     
  3. Matt Jesty

    Matt Jesty Second Unit

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    The amount of available power gained from using 2 or 3 (or more) seperate amps is going to provide more than most 5/6/7 channel amps (or rcvrs) due to the extra power supplys
     
  4. Andrew Pratt

    Andrew Pratt Producer

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    I think the larger issue with using amps from different vendors could lie in the different gains each amps uses. If you're watching a the same volume you cablibrated to it shouldn't be an issue but if you diveate from that things might get out of ballence.
     
  5. Martice

    Martice Screenwriter

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  6. Ron-P

    Ron-P Producer

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    I just, in the past week, made the jump into separates. I bought 3 Adcom GFA-535 stereo amps. They are bi-amping my mains and center. The sound cannot be compared to my Marantz SR5000.
    Here is my question on separates vr. flagship receiver. The power supply. I cannot see how a receiver with one power supply feeding 6 or 7 amps can compete sound wise to separate amps each with it's own power supply. Am I correct in assuming this? The single power supply in a receiver will get strained much earlier on when getting pushed affecting the final outcome, sound. With separate amps, this would not be as big an issue, correct?
    I plan on adding one more identical amp for my surrounds.
    Peace Out~[​IMG]
     
  7. Martice

    Martice Screenwriter

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    You're right on Ron. Check this article right HERE. I read this a long time ago and knew that I had to get seperate amps to push my former PSB Goldi's with out strain. However, I don't think that in a real world enviornment you will actually need seperate amps for multi-channel movies other than the front 3. However, multi-channel music may be a different story especially if you like to run your music using 5-channel stereo DSP modes and similar DSP's. Not to mention the SACD multi-channel formats as well.
    Enjoy and Peace out to you!!
     
  8. Matt Jesty

    Matt Jesty Second Unit

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    All else being equal, I would still strive to do what Ron is intending; match ALL amps...I have heard COUNTLESS arguements from people on why they don't feel the NEED to use the exact same amps and speakers in multi-channel ,yet none will sustain same arguement for stereo...PORQUE'?
     
  9. Martice

    Martice Screenwriter

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  10. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    I upgraded from an Onkyo 919THX to a Sherwood Newcastle 9080 combo earlier this year. The difference in sound was not dramatic, as a matter of fact I'd be hard pressed to tell you that there was any difference at all. (except on Phono records, which are much better in the S/N but that could be a better phono preamp) Of course I did not A/B them. The difference in convenience and usability is very noticable - the old external decoder system was kind of clunky and now everything is beautifully integrated.
     
  11. Martice

    Martice Screenwriter

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    Hi Phil. Depending on the level in which you enter into the seperates game and what receiver you're replacing will determine the amount of differences that you may hear. If you didn't notice any difference between the Onkyo and the Sherwood then that says a lot about this particular Onkyo receiver and makes you wonder about the amp section in the Sherwood.

    Any differences in bass control and headroom? Any increase in detail and soundstage? Did the musical presentation seem to feel a little more relaxed?
     
  12. Craig Woodhall

    Craig Woodhall Supporting Actor

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    I have Paradigm studio 40's (mains) studio-cc (center) and studio 20's (sides/surrounds).. I power the two mains and the two sides with a Cinepro (200Wx2) amp and the center/surrounds with an Acurus 200x3.. I personally can't hear the difference between the amps powering the same speakers, at least in movies.. and I must say, my system sounds great, very dynamic and seamless pans front/back and side to side.. [​IMG]
    Craig
     
  13. Ron-P

    Ron-P Producer

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    Thanks Martice.
    I made sure all my speakers were matched when I bought them. Same goes with the amps. Weather it makes a sound difference or not, I'd just like to have all matching amps. Hey, it looks cool in the rack[​IMG]
    I was simply amazed at the sound difference when I wired up the Adcom's. The real test came the other night.
    I've watched Moulin Rouge 20+ times at least, thru the Marantz. Tuesday night my wife and I sat down to watch it, but now thru the Adcom's. The difference was nothing short of amazing. Needless to say, I am very familiar with this movies sound track and I heard things I had not heard before. The detail these amps deliver is stellar. It was like hearing the movie for the first time. I was constantly picking out never before heard sounds and background songs.
    Both my wife and I were amazed. She noticed a substantial increase in sound quality. Friends that came over Saturday to watch Black Hawk Down were amazed at the sound. Comments like the detail, the crispness of the sound were awesome. Commenting on the perfect balance between that and the Tempest Sonosub I built the sound is very impressive.
    I'm in audio nirvana[​IMG]
    Peace Out~[​IMG]
     
  14. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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  15. Martice

    Martice Screenwriter

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    Phil, first off I'd like to say that's a wonderful system you have there.
    Secondly, you are truly blessed that you are able to enjoy your system emotionally without being so critical. It is you sir who has reached Nirvana and it is the rest of us 'detail' seekers that are the cursed ones.
    They key to a nicely performing system is 'synergy'. A nice room (like you have)and a collection of equipment that compliments the other parts as opposed to revealing the weaker parts is what we 'should' be striving for but then again, some of us do have the curse.
    Keep Banging and enjoy the system. [​IMG]
     
  16. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    Thanks for the kind words.

    Recently I had the opportunity to audition a very nicely tuned stereo system owned by another forum member. It is orders of magnitude more expensive than mine, particularly in the area of speakers and amplification, and definitely sounded it. However, I came home and was even happier with my system than ever after that. The B&W 602 speakers are truly exceptional pieces, and with a good back end like I have they can be quite pleasing.

    I'm very happy with the system as it stands, and it is extremely easy to use, but I'd like a phonograph and SACD player to round out the compatability.
     
  17. RichardMA

    RichardMA Second Unit

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  18. Martice

    Martice Screenwriter

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